Estimate help

[sii]

I'm hoping someone can tell me if I'm in the right ball park here. I'm smalltime, don't have any estimating software and have done almost no residential work under the 08 code. State is Nebraska.

Two 145 sqft bedrooms, (4) 8" can lights each, 5 receptacles each
22' x 4' hallway, adding 3 can lights to existing circuit, 2 new receptacles added to existing circuit
Forty sq ft bathroom, 2 receptacles, one shower can light & customer supplied exhaust fan and vanity light
Add two single receptacles in the utility room for freezer and fridge, panel is in utility room
Move a couple porcelain fixtures and remove several
Possibly a couple of new closet light fixtures

Panel is located in utility room, walls and ceiling are completely open, very clean, three year old house located about fourteen miles away. All the work is in the newly framed out basement. I will supply all materials except that mentioned above.

I'm coming up with about $2450. Thing is I probably have the job no regardless of price but I don't want to screw the customer or (more importantly) myself. The guy's a supervisor, although not mine, where I work.

 

[LarryFine]

I'm coming up with about $2450.

That sounds decent. I would add to that costs such as permit and inspection, phone/cable or HVAC wiring, exterior/attic/crawl lighting and/or receptacles, the exhaust-fan ducting, and don't forget at least three (from your description) smoke detectors.

Added: I'd probably ask for an even $3K, having not seen the existing and new construction, and not knowing the difficulty of joining existing wiring, routing the new home runs, and knowing the existing and new loads, and panel space and capacity.

 

[Robert Hutcherson]

Total estimated job hours x base labor rate x labor burden x overhead/profit.

Total your takeoff material with tax and markup 50-100 percent.

Add permit fees x overhead/profit.

Everyone has a different take on this.

Price $3,000 to 3,500

Could use total cost of labor with burden, material with tax, permit fees, apply overhead and charge 25 % profit on this true cost. You would track things on a time and material basis daily.

Good luck.

 

[Robert Hutcherson]

Total estimated job hours x base labor rate x labor burden x overhead/profit.

Total your takeoff material with tax and markup 50-100 percent.

Add permit fees x overhead/profit.

Everyone has a different take on this.

Price $3,000 to 3,500

Could use total cost of labor with burden, material with tax, permit fees, apply overhead and charge 25 % profit on this true cost. You would track things on a time and material basis daily.

Good luck.

 

[sii]

I took into account the fact that I KNOW this guy will be a complete PITA about everything on this job I decided to shoot the moon. I quoted $3215, thinkin that either I don't get the job or I make a good chunk from it. (Edit: I used to completely underestimate my skills and try to lowball every bid just to get the job. I think reading these forums every day broke me of that philosophy and I thank you all for that.)

Customer told me today that he had another bid for $1200 from the electrician who initially wired the house when it was built. I don't know whether to call him on his lying or root for the other guy to get the job.

He said that the other bid was so low because they are still wiring new homes in the next neighborhood over. I told him I couldn't break even at $1200 if I had a shop next door.

 

[e57]

Customer told me today that he had another bid for $1200 from the electrician who initially wired the house when it was built. I don't know whether to call him on his lying or root for the other guy to get the job.

He said that the other bid was so low because they are still wiring new homes in the next neighborhood over. I told him I couldn't break even at $1200 if I had a shop next door.

Ask for his number to sub him out....

 

[dmagyar]

There's an Inherent problem being too close to a Prospective client

There's an Inherent problem being too close to a Prospective client

On one hand just as you stated originally that you thought the job was yours, bad assumption. Imho what I see also is that as a "friend" or someone who knows the "Prospective Client" you're not going to have the normal client/contractor relationship and that you may be expected to "know", (read) & include everything regardless of what's on the plans. Change orders and such are also going to be a problem for that reason. Worse yet is that you're presently working in the same company with the PC.

It seems like unless you drop your price, the PC will give the job to the other contractor anyways. Then you may be able to keep track and see how it turns out, without jeopardizing your day job, sort of a reality check on your pricing.

I had a chance to bid a TI on an existing shell, for a existing client. I found out from a friend who does more of that TI work then I do what the going price per sq ft was. When I surpassed that number with my bid, I called and let them know I couldn't get competitive on the job, which turned out to be a good thing. The final price came in 40% under what the low end of the market was supposed to be.

 

[sii]

I gues my thought is that maybe I don't want the job. We are not exactly what you would call friends. I will most certainly not be heart-broken if I don't get the job.

That being said, I'd bet dinner that there is no other contractor. He's just the kind of guy to do that to me.

 

[Teaspoon]

I took into account the fact that I KNOW this guy will be a complete PITA about everything on this job I decided to shoot the moon. I quoted $3215, thinkin that either I don't get the job or I make a good chunk from it. (Edit: I used to completely underestimate my skills and try to lowball every bid just to get the job. I think reading these forums every day broke me of that philosophy and I thank you all for that.)

Customer told me today that he had another bid for $1200 from the electrician who initially wired the house when it was built. I don't know whether to call him on his lying or root for the other guy to get the job.

He said that the other bid was so low because they are still wiring new homes in the next neighborhood over. I told him I couldn't break even at $1200 if I had a shop next door.

I would just say ,I would advise you to hire the other electrician.
If i can't make money on a job I don't need it. And at that price I definately can't make anything.

 

[ty]

My thought is the other quote was probably more like $2400 (close to your original price) and your customer threw a 'half of the price' quote at you, to see if you would give your lowest number and say 'well the lowest I could go is 2400'.
Then he could say well, 'I'd rather give the job to you, even though you are twice his number'. (while in reality, you are not.)

Ask your customer to see a written estimate from the 'other guy'.
BTW, my rough guess on this job with out looking and going by your specs would be around $2400.

 

[ty]

Customer told me today that he had another bid for $1200 from the electrician who initially wired the house when it was built. I don't know whether to call him on his lying or root for the other guy to get the job.

He said that the other bid was so low because they are still wiring new homes in the next neighborhood over. I told him I couldn't break even at $1200 if I had a shop next door.

Oh, wait. now I see.

He got a quote from the 'electrician who wired the house'. Is this the owner or the guy in the field. My guess now is it is the latter.

So different scenario.
He's getting a price from a guy in the field, who is working in the neighborhood next door, grabbing all of his supplies from that jobsite(stealing) and working for your customer just for his own labor hours.

 

[shockin]

Total your takeoff material with tax and markup 50-100 percent.

Add overhead/profit.

50 - 100% profit on material plus profit on top of that?

I wish that were the case, I know it wouldn't fly around here and from all of the posts I read on hear I can't imagine there are too many places in the country where that is the "going rate."

In a competative bid around here material is pretty near cost. You might get a couple percent overal profit on the job. People are hungy right now. You don't have to lower your rates to match theirs but you won't "win" any bids.

I understand why some people say you can't let your competiton set your rates but IMO the market / buyer does set the rates in large part.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

My thought is the other quote was probably more like $2400 (close to your original price) and your customer threw a 'half of the price' quote at you, to see if you would give your lowest number and say 'well the lowest I could go is 2400'.
Then he could say well, 'I'd rather give the job to you, even though you are twice his number'. (while in reality, you are not.)

Ask your customer to see a written estimate from the 'other guy'.
BTW, my rough guess on this job with out looking and going by your specs would be around $2400.

I recently had a customer ask me to "shave" 3000 off an 8000 quote!!,,,I told her it ain't happening. There's not that much "paddin" in any of my quotes.

 

[satcom]

50 - 100% profit on material plus profit on top of that?

I wish that were the case, I know it wouldn't fly around here and from all of the posts I read on hear I can't imagine there are too many places in the country where that is the "going rate."

In a competative bid around here material is pretty near cost. You might get a couple percent overal profit on the job. People are hungy right now. You don't have to lower your rates to match theirs but you won't "win" any bids.

I understand why some people say you can't let your competiton set your rates but IMO the market / buyer does set the rates in large part.

There is no going rate in business, rates are established with costs of doing business, not what some other business charges, and if a business marks up material 100% it is not all profit, most contractors will be lucky if they can keep 3 to 7% of that 100% you have to understand all the costs of doing business, to understand pricing.

 

[growler]

So different scenario.
He's getting a price from a guy in the field, who is working in the neighborhood next door, grabbing all of his supplies from that jobsite(stealing) and working for your customer just for his own labor hours.

Happens all the time, $1200 cash money under table. No permits and no questions asked. And no way to compete with that type of situation.

 

[wireperson]

how long do you think you are going to take to complete this job to come up with this numbers, how many electricians

 

[shockin]

There is no going rate in business, rates are established with costs of doing business, not what some other business charges, and if a business marks up material 100% it is not all profit, most contractors will be lucky if they can keep 3 to 7% of that 100% you have to understand all the costs of doing business, to understand pricing.

According to Roberts post he was telling the OP to figure his overhead into his labor. I agree with this as # of labor hours per year are much more consistant year/year then material sales. Especially when bidding large box staore where they provide all the fixtures and gear and modualr wiring. If your counting on getting overhead from your material sales your up a creak.

So ASSUMING you have properly figured your true overhead and included this on your labor/hours the 50-100% he mentioned is presumable aditional profit?

 

[satcom]

According to Roberts post he was telling the OP to figure his overhead into his labor. I agree with this as # of labor hours per year are much more consistant year/year then material sales. Especially when bidding large box staore where they provide all the fixtures and gear and modualr wiring. If your counting on getting overhead from your material sales your up a creak.

So ASSUMING you have properly figured your true overhead and included this on your labor/hours the 50-100% he mentioned is presumable aditional profit?

Your right on when you say "If your counting on getting overhead from your material sales your up a creak."

However as you said when the material is supplied, you don't have those additional costs.