Calculator

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gar said:
100413-1211 EST

Why should calculators be allowed for in the normal classroom test? I suggest that for most purposes slide rules and pencil and paper should be adequate.
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My sister had to take a college algebra class. As a result, she was required to purchase a graphing calculator. preferably the one that her text book used because it used pictures of the face of the calculator to show keystrokes.

I could not believe it. They were being taught keystrokes and not how to do the math or really understand the math. But my cynical side was sure that some professor or department head was getting a kickback from a calculator manufacturer for requiring the use of that textbook while the calculator manufacturer in turn paid off a textbook publisher to use their calculator in the textbook.

She was trying to become an elementary education teacher. She will never use the graphing features of that calculator that cost her $90 to buy because the one class required it.

And high schools are no better. I personally use an HP48SX, but at least if I did not have it, I could still figure out what I needed to. I agree with Gar. Students do not learn this way. Yes, it is easier for professors to teach and if my cynical side is correct, more profittable for those professors, but it contributes to the dumbing down of our society.

That's my thoughts as well. But then I also believe that coffee will be the end of our society as well. Just look at how many people cannot start the day without one to four cups of coffee. If terrorists just attacked the coffee supply, our country would not be able to wake up and any foreign government could just walk right over us. Mark my words. We are on the slippery slope of the coffee bean.
 
100413-1703 EST

Larry:

Easy to carry around. Batteries last a long time.

If at your computer it is not necessary to clutter the screen with another window. Does Windows use RPN?

.
 
I emailed the head of the EET department and she said a TI 83 to a TI 89 is what the students use. I will be getting an A.S. at this school and they have an agreement with other schools to transfer in to complete my B.S.

Do you guy's think it would be a good idea to start using one of the calculators mentioned like the HP 50 now on the Algebra and Calc courses I will be taking in the next 2 years and switch later on when I need a RPN calc.

Which I never heard of RPN before so I looked it up.

Thanks for your input.
Kevin
 
KP2 said:
I emailed the head of the EET department and she said a TI 83 to a TI 89 is what the students use. I will be getting an A.S. at this school and they have an agreement with other schools to transfer in to complete my B.S.

Do you guy's think it would be a good idea to start using one of the calculators mentioned like the HP 50 now on the Algebra and Calc courses I will be taking in the next 2 years and switch later on when I need a RPN calc.

Which I never heard of RPN before so I looked it up.

Thanks for your input.
Kevin
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The HP50G (I didn't find a plain HP50 listed) does RPN as well as algebraic entry. It looks like a great calculator to me; it's a descendant of the HP41CV that got me through engineering school.

My general advice in cases like this is to go directly to the machine you are going to end up using if you can afford it.
 
LarryFine said:
Is there anything these calculators do that one can't do with the Windows calculator in Scientific mode?
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Complex math - which is something I do use.

I bought a Hp50g (cause mivey recommended it) For some reason it is not easy for me to use. I went back to my 20 year old 42S.

Now that HP is getting back in the RPN calculator business, I'll likely buy one of their Hp35S, $60. It says it can do complex math.

Or maybe get an Hp48xx, $110. That one looks like it can graph and do complex matricies. Which would be okay - but not if it is non-intutive to me.

In order for me
RPN
All the regular eng/sci stuff (log, ln, trig, sqrt, sqr, x^y, e^x, 10^x, deg or rad,)
Definitely want a pi key
Complex math, rect > polar (and back)
Complex matricies (used occasionally)
graphing (never have used on with it - might be fun)

cf
 
gar said:
100413-1211 EST

Why should calculators be allowed for in the normal classroom test? I suggest that for most purposes slide rules and pencil and paper should be adequate. ...
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gar -
I have a 6" circular pickett as well as a 25cm bamboo and plastic Deitzen. Both sit on the shelf next to the curta.

I'm going to asume you were kidding about the calculators and computers. No one I know in the business would would want to go back to slings and arrows.

Okay, there is one 100 year old design I still use. I have not found anything better than a single stack 1911 - I don't even particularly care for an A1.

cf
 
KP2 said:
I emailed the head of the EET department and she said a TI 83 to a TI 89 is what the students use. I will be getting an A.S. at this school and they have an agreement with other schools to transfer in to complete my B.S.

Do you guy's think it would be a good idea to start using one of the calculators mentioned like the HP 50 now on the Algebra and Calc courses I will be taking in the next 2 years and switch later on when I need a RPN calc.

Which I never heard of RPN before so I looked it up.

Thanks for your input.
Kevin
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Why you are insisting on a advance calculator too much. If want to use it in exam, just take a simple scientific.
if you want to use it to draw graph or to show you the equation graph, it is better to learn mathlab and pspice software.
 
How about?

How about?

How about an hp-21?

The attached photo shows the first hp-21 in the world--not exactly vest pocket. Sorry about the faded Polaroid print.

Can't find my photo of the first hp-35.

I prefer hp, and I expecially like the RPN. It is similar to the sequence one would use with an adding machine.

The implentation of CMOS circuitry and LCDs obsoleted the rechargeable battery packs. This was one giant leap for engineering kind.

My hp-15C has been humming along for ages now.

BTW, I doubt that any school is teaching sliderule today, and where would you buy one anyway?
 
Hameedulla-Ekhlas said:
Why you are insisting on a advance calculator too much. If want to use it in exam, just take a simple scientific.
if you want to use it to draw graph or to show you the equation graph, it is better to learn mathlab and pspice software.
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Good point. I want to be prepaired for what's to come. If I need an advanced calc to complete my degree and to work as an EE when I'm done.

I think ggunn makes a good point about learning on what you will use, besides if I get comfortable with using one now then it will offset the learning curve down the road when the math gets harder.

I have a TI - 83 that will get me most of the way, I thought that I would upgrade to new calculator with a few more options.

From what everyone else is saying I will need something more advanced, do you agree?

I don't want to confuse myself with learning a new method if I don't have to but I would rather learn it now instead of later.

Any thoughts.
 
Ti-89

Ti-89

I used a TI-89 all through school, and still use it. They made the simultaneous equations easier to input as compared to the TI-83, and also the calculations in polar format are much easier to input.

I am pretty sure you can download a TI-89 emulator, and try it out before you decide to purchase. There are probably newer models out there which are emulated...

when not in the classroom it is really handy to have a student copy of MATLAB on your computer. very necessary for control system theory, and larger matrix manipulations.
 
gar said:
100413-1703 EST

Larry:

Easy to carry around. Batteries last a long time.

If at your computer it is not necessary to clutter the screen with another window. Does Windows use RPN?

.
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I have a recollection that some website offers an HP calculator simulator for Windows, not sure which edition.

Let me add something else to the mix. If you plan on taking NICET certifications in your career, the list of approved calculators is very short. I had to retire my HP-42S as a result.

I would reccommend the HP-33s. It's NICET approved, reasonably programmable and gives you the choice of RPN or standard data entry.
 
KP2 said:
Good point. I want to be prepaired for what's to come. If I need an advanced calc to complete my degree and to work as an EE when I'm done.

I think ggunn makes a good point about learning on what you will use, besides if I get comfortable with using one now then it will offset the learning curve down the road when the math gets harder.

I have a TI - 83 that will get me most of the way, I thought that I would upgrade to new calculator with a few more options.

From what everyone else is saying I will need something more advanced, do you agree?

I don't want to confuse myself with learning a new method if I don't have to but I would rather learn it now instead of later.

Any thoughts.
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It was just my suggestion to you to use simple scientific calculator for daily purpose and exam.

mathlab program and pspice programs are not like this to solve for you all questionas step by step. After inputing you can get just the final result as well as ver nice graph.
It is better for you to start with math and will help you only in visualizing and understanding math. It will not give you any equation solution or answer step by step. It just give you the final result and you can not you use it unless you know math and equation solution.

What other engineers say, follow it try to find out the best way for yourself.
 
KP2 said:
Good point. I want to be prepaired for what's to come. If I need an advanced calc to complete my degree and to work as an EE when I'm done.

I think ggunn makes a good point about learning on what you will use, besides if I get comfortable with using one now then it will offset the learning curve down the road when the math gets harder.

I have a TI - 83 that will get me most of the way, I thought that I would upgrade to new calculator with a few more options.

From what everyone else is saying I will need something more advanced, do you agree?

I don't want to confuse myself with learning a new method if I don't have to but I would rather learn it now instead of later.

Any thoughts.
Click to expand...
Learning RPN is not that big of a deal; it's very logical and once you become accustomed to it, you'll probably love it. I do. It took me all of about 10 minutes to "get it", although it takes a little longer to be able to use it effectively. One of its advantages is that quite often you can start with a complicated heavily nested equation and systematically solve it without ever having to write anything down and re-enter numbers. It also often requires significantly fewer keystrokes to accomplish the same string of operations.
 
100416-0949 EST

KP2:

If your instructor specifies a particular calculator for the class, then you probably should buy and use that calculator for the class.

In the future buy a calculator that best suits your needs.

.
 
Thanks for all your input. I have decided to get an HP50g and a laptop.

Thanks again for your suggestions. Its awsome to have so many people willing to help out each other. :grin:
 
Cold Fusion said:
Complex math - which is something I do use.

I bought a Hp50g (cause mivey recommended it) For some reason it is not easy for me to use. I went back to my 20 year old 42S.
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Let's see, I know I have the 17bII+, 20S, 33s, 41CX, 48SX, 49G, 50G and a few Casios, TIs, etc. The programmable HPs with RPN are my calculator of choice and I carry the 49 or 50 wherever I go. I loan the 20S to people who are intimidated by the bigger calculators and RPN.

If you can use the 48, you can use the 50. It is just a little bit different but functions like the 49. My transition from the 48 to 49 was a slight change. My transition from the 41 to 48 was a big change but I loved the easier programming.

I think if you take the time to go through the manual, you will appreciate the power. It is really not as difficult of a learning curve as you might think. Leave your other calculator at home and that will force you to spend time with the new one. I nursed my 48 for a while until I just decided to put it in the drawer and get used to the 49. No regrets.
Cold Fusion said:
Now that HP is getting back in the RPN calculator business, I'll likely buy one of their Hp35S, $60. It says it can do complex math.

Or maybe get an Hp48xx, $110. That one looks like it can graph and do complex matricies. Which would be okay - but not if it is non-intutive to me.
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Take the time to learn the 50: it is worth it.
 
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