Just curious how some of you in states that require licensing deal with other contractors using unlicensed labor. More specificlly in Mass with more than one apprentice to a journeyman or no journeyman on the job. Do you keep silent, raise a fuss? How do you turn them in? Does the inspector enforce the regs or does nothing really happens? Times are getting difficult and rummers of low bidders using unqualified labor are floating around. Its getting harder to play by the rules when the compitition isn't.
Unlicensed Labor
- Thread starter jzadroga
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Volta
Senior Member
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
Heck, some of the higher priced outfits have unqualified labor, and occasionally a contractor has no license at all :roll:.
It doesn't seem too much different than it always has been.
Here in Ohio, apprentice and journeyman are strictly union or PW terms, not for regular contracting.
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
We have the same thing here. Funny that no one really cared when there was more than enough work for everyone. Same as cities, they never take a proactive approach to building code violations until someone gets killed.
dmagyar
Senior Member
- Location
- Rocklin, Ca.
Northern California no different
Northern California no different
Northern California's no different, between the unlicensed, the "handymen" and the general contractors doing electrical work it's tough finding work. I was visiting my Dad who lives near a retirement community, they had a show going on, where one of the participants was a general contractor cutting lawns for $60/mo. the lawns are about the size of two ping pong tables. But I'm sure they've got plenty of competition also.
The cities and county governments are just gearing up on fees and costs to be leveling on all of the licensed contractors. As far as I know, they could care less about enforcing any laws on the books about being licenced or anything other than "Protecting Homeowners". I can't figure how those at the CSLB (California State licensing board) can't see that they're existing on the efforts of licensed contractors and why they don't wake up to the fact. Do they think that when the last licensed contractor finally has had enough and hangs it up, that they'll still be working? Do they think that after we're all gone they can retire with fat unfunded municipal pensions?
Northern California no different
Northern California's no different, between the unlicensed, the "handymen" and the general contractors doing electrical work it's tough finding work. I was visiting my Dad who lives near a retirement community, they had a show going on, where one of the participants was a general contractor cutting lawns for $60/mo. the lawns are about the size of two ping pong tables. But I'm sure they've got plenty of competition also.
The cities and county governments are just gearing up on fees and costs to be leveling on all of the licensed contractors. As far as I know, they could care less about enforcing any laws on the books about being licenced or anything other than "Protecting Homeowners". I can't figure how those at the CSLB (California State licensing board) can't see that they're existing on the efforts of licensed contractors and why they don't wake up to the fact. Do they think that when the last licensed contractor finally has had enough and hangs it up, that they'll still be working? Do they think that after we're all gone they can retire with fat unfunded municipal pensions?
In Jersey, you make a pretty hefty investment in both time, and money to secure a license, so most of the guys do not take it lightly, when some unlicensed guy tries to operate, many of the contractors will turn out in wolf packs, to catch someone unlicensed working, and do everything it takes to turn the guys in, and you can,t blame them for protecting their investment.
jmellc
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
- Occupation
- Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
I know in my area that we have untold numbers of unlicensed people doing electrical work. Some are totally unqualified handymen and some are mechanics or helpers working on the side, probably using the boss' materials. I would turn some in if I could catch them redhanded. I fix some of the slop they install. Homeowners have confessed to me they hired jacklegs to save money. Some HO's know the guys aren't supposed to do this work, some are ignorant, some don't care until a problem arises. I don't know who people get, but my pricing is close to bare bones; I know I have to be less than most others in town and still won't get the job. If it's outdoors, I sometimes go by later and see it's been done. I should watch more closely. HO's are doing a lot of their own too, with varying degrees of quality. They sometimes call me to fix stuff they messed up on or didn't know how to finish. Then they think my price is too high. I sometimes negotiate a bit with people but I'll go out of business before I'll be jerked around by everyone. As I've said before, they don't mind spending for their toys but think I should be cheap or free.
Teaspoon
Senior Member
- Location
- Camden,Tn.
The Contractors running Their business Legal. With license, and insurance,
are definately having a tough time right now. the unlicensed ,uninsured people
getting paid cash. Doing poor quality work, are really hurting us.
Also the big box stores with their how-to work shops aren't helping either!
You are always going to have homeowners doing their own work, and that is legal and should remain so. The unlicensed, uninsured guys getting getting paid cash, and doing poor work, will also be there, in every trade, and the customers trying to save will sometimes hire these hacks, and crooks, crooks because they not only steal money from the ligit market, they also steal from everyone, when they avoid taxes.
jsmalone1
Member
- Location
- southwest Missouri
I am from the Chicago area--I managed many of the largest projects in the Chicagoland area from 1991 through 2005. I currently live in rural southwest Missouri--what a culture shock for me. I went from running jobs up to 148 men to a 1 man operation. Reality is that many electricians in the Chicago area are not licensed, don't need to be, and sadly, many could not pass the test anyway. Here, the biggest city around requires a license for everyone. In the rural areas here no license is required. I do get quite a lot of work fixing other's work, but reality is we did a lot of that in Chicago. We can all relate our personal stories but things are similar everywhere.
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readydave8
re member
- Location
- Clarkesville, Georgia
- Occupation
- electrician
I guess y'all are right, but sometimes I'm sorta glad when I see bad work, helps me stick to my guns on pricing.
Also after my last go-round with mechanics trying to fix my truck I feel justified in the prices I charge.
Also after my last go-round with mechanics trying to fix my truck I feel justified in the prices I charge.
wptski
Senior Member
- Location
- Warren, MI
How much business does Home Depot or Lowe's get from DIY'rs? Not just electrical but all catagories. I don't think they'd be a big as they are without the DIY'r business. It's what they advertise!
wptski
Senior Member
- Location
- Warren, MI
How much business does Home Depot or Lowe's get from DIY'rs? Not just electrical but all catagories. I don't think they'd be a big as they are without the DIY'r business. It's what they advertise!
dwellselectric
Inactive, Email Never Verified
- Location
- Cape Cod, Massachusetts
About six years ago in my town journeymen got away with having more then one apprentice until one electrician lost a bid and got a little upset. He ended up telling the inspector and that put a stop to more then one apprentice for everything. Which I totally agree with.
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
PW ??? Public Works?
Volta
Senior Member
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
Sorry, Prevailing Wage rate (Davis-Bacon).
shepelec
Senior Member
- Location
- Palmer, MA
I hear all kinds of complaints from the EC's in the town I work for. I tell them "drop a dime". After 5yrs still have not received one call (most have my cell #). If I see it, I stop it. Part of the problem is the MA state laws do not give the inspector much bite. I can submit their names to Boston and they might fine the unlicensed guys or suspend their license if they have one but usually they get a nasty gram and that all. Building inspectors can issue a citation with a fine for building code violations but EI's can't (from what I have been told).
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
In Georgia, only one person in the company is required to have a license, there is no journeyman's license. The person that holds the license is held responsible for everyone working under it though, can be one or a thousand or more. If you are caught working without a license, you will be brought before the constuction board (and you better show up)with the penalties ranging from the prohibition of being able to apply for a license for a period of time, to I think fines, and I believe jail time in some cases.
In MA there are plenty of State Laws and Regulations that will allow the municipal inspector to enforce the licensing laws. Chpt 141 1A in general, CMR 237 18 ect. Complaint forms to the state investigators are effective. (Unfortunately man power issues creates a slow process)I hear all kinds of complaints from the EC's in the town I work for. I tell them "drop a dime". After 5yrs still have not received one call (most have my cell #). If I see it, I stop it. Part of the problem is the MA state laws do not give the inspector much bite. I can submit their names to Boston and they might fine the unlicensed guys or suspend their license if they have one but usually they get a nasty gram and that all. Building inspectors can issue a citation with a fine for building code violations but EI's can't (from what I have been told).
Unlicensed work for hire can yield a cease and desist order. The municipal inspector has the option of pursuing violators in superior Court. I know none of these options are appealing to part time inspectors, but in Mass. The municipal inspector is tasked with the first line of enforcement for the state licensing laws.
Pretty much the same options in New Jersey, we were on a job where the permit card fell out of view, and 3 of the area electrical contractors called, and complained, that non permited work was being done, so the inspector and 2 police cars showed up, and they were ready to put the handcuff on everyone working on the job.
The area EC's just love to catch the moonlighters working nights, and weekends without permits.
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