Unfinished

[Dennis Alwon]

I see a lot of houses on slabs that are either stained or colored when poured. Can you tell me that I have to install GFCI for every cicuit in the house. The house is finished regardless of the floor.

These floors look as finished as any other floor so I really don't see an inspector calling this, esp. if the walls are sheetrocked, etc. If there were marble on the floor would that change things--:-? Nowhere in the code does it say concrete floor is unfinished.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Come to FL over 50% are concrete floors. Most will get carpet or tile . Never had an inspector even think about trying that game. Finished to me would be walls and ceilings drywalled.
What does this inspector do with commercial stores, warehouses,offices ?

 

[cowboyjwc]

IMO the only one that can answer this is the local AHJ.

I personally see it as Dennis but we don't count.

There is no local AHJ. The state adopts the codes and that would make them the AHJ. The statewide jurisdictions are then required to adopt the code within 6 months. There are only local enforcement agencies. That is according to your last argument, but that might also depend on where you live.:grin:

 

[mcclary's electrical]

There is no local AHJ. The state adopts the codes and that would make them the AHJ. The statewide jurisdictions are then required to adopt the code within 6 months. There are only local enforcement agencies. That is according to your last argument, but that might also depend on where you live.:grin:

Simply installing drywall or concrete doesn't mean anything. I get in this argument with inspectors every time someone has put dropped ceiling in a basement.

A room, no matter where it is, must meet all the requirements of 210 before it's considered finished. You could have a finished basement on concrete. Concrete floors mean nothing

 

[jumper]

Are houses built on slabs requiring GFCI protection for every receptacle?

Nope, just the ones you plug into standing on concrete in a residence around here.

Where is that in the NEC?

Just so I am clear here, I am not saying the floor is part of what decides whether a room is finished or not in residential.

The county inspector is. I tell people that it not worth fighting, similar to Bob and his mall job. It is just something to live with, since it usually only involves one or two circuits.

I live in town(different inspector), and while my job falls inside his jurisdiction, he generally asks the folks in Richmond to deal with us.

 

[iwire]

The house is finished regardless of the floor.

IMO that is just one persons opinion.

Nowhere in the code does it say concrete floor is unfinished.

I agree and nowhere in the code does it say concrete floor is finished.

The term finished is undefined.

Does it mean 'done with construction'?

Does it mean the walls are painted?

Does it mean the area is habitable?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Originally Posted by Dennis Alwon
The house is finished regardless of the floor.

IMO that is just one persons opinion.

Yes. and I must admit it is a darn good opinion. :grin:

 

[iwire]

Yes. and I must admit it is a darn good opinion. :grin:

:grin: ...........................

 

[cowboyjwc]

Simply installing drywall or concrete doesn't mean anything. I get in this argument with inspectors every time someone has put dropped ceiling in a basement.

A room, no matter where it is, must meet all the requirements of 210 before it's considered finished. You could have a finished basement on concrete. Concrete floors mean nothing

Oh I was just stirring the pot on something else. We don't have basements around here so I don't really have an opinion one way or the other.

 

[resistance]

I knew this would get people talking!!!

 

[electricmanscott]

I would have to say if the room is habitable, by that I mean it meets the requirements for living space, whatever those happen to be, it is finished.

 

[growler]

A room, no matter where it is, must meet all the requirements of 210 before it's considered finished. You could have a finished basement on concrete. Concrete floors mean nothing

Does it mean the area is habitable?

I saw a beautifull basement job done at one time . Lots of nice wood work and even crown molding. Very nice paint and carpet but for some reason they just left out the electrical.

No matter how nice it looked this basement was not finished living space and couldn't be listed or sold as living space. It would have made some really fancy storage space.

I agree with Mcclary that it's finished when it meets all the requirements.

If someone can show where floor covering are a requirement then let them do so. I'm sure that this could be a local code amendment.

If it is a local code there shouldn't be any problem for them to cite this code and back it up with documentation.

 

[Steve Beranek]

210.8 (a) Unfinished basements - for purposes of this section, unfinished basement are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like

OK, So not intended on habitable area, and limited storage, would led to the assumption that if the area does not also have a cieling then it would be unfinished, however if the concrete was colored, for design, and the cieling was finished it would be a finished room. If concrete was not covered, etc we would think it would be Unfinished and require GFCI protection.

There for rooms without floor covering, or cieling cover would require GFCI protection, except in the case that it would be used for habitable area, in which the cieling would need to be covered.

IMO

 

[russ]

If the floor is tiled or but none of the wall or ceilings are finished, would you need GFCI protection?

 

[kwired]

If you have GFCI protected receptacles and a concrete floor and the inspector calls it unfinished he better not say you need an additional outlet anyplace.

Finished is subject to interpertation. Sometimes exposed framing is considered the design and is finished. Ceramic tile over concrete is probably not much different conductivity wise (the tile maybe, the grout likely not) yet many would call it finished.

A painted concrete floor is probably less conductive than an unpainted floor.

 

[Steve Beranek]

If the floor is tiled or but none of the wall or ceilings are finished, would you need GFCI protection?

You would need 1 GFCI in the unfinished area

 

[Steve Beranek]

If you have GFCI protected receptacles and a concrete floor and the inspector calls it unfinished he better not say you need an additional outlet anyplace.

Finished is subject to interpertation. Sometimes exposed framing is considered the design and is finished. Ceramic tile over concrete is probably not much different conductivity wise (the tile maybe, the grout likely not) yet many would call it finished.

A painted concrete floor is probably less conductive than an unpainted floor.

Painted floor is more finished than a floor not painted. You would not put a workshop in a basement room with carpet, or well at least Most wouldn't.

Conductivity, umm I'm not really sure that comes into play much

Any regards to additional outlets anywhere else, well that would only apply in that room, any unfinished areas, that are seperated by a finished area would need a GFCI as well. And additional finished rooms of course may require addtional to meet the code

 

[Dennis Alwon]

We all have our idea of what finished is. Some people get in their minds that concrete is unfinished and needs GFCI protection because it is in contact with the earth. In general unfinished basements, which often have concrete floors or earthen floors, need gfci protection so people just assume if it is concrete it needs gfci.

 

[kwired]

210.8 (a) Unfinished basements - for purposes of this section, unfinished basement are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like

OK, So not intended on habitable area, and limited storage, would led to the assumption that if the area does not also have a cieling then it would be unfinished, however if the concrete was colored, for design, and the cieling was finished it would be a finished room. If concrete was not covered, etc we would think it would be Unfinished and require GFCI protection.

There for rooms without floor covering, or cieling cover would require GFCI protection, except in the case that it would be used for habitable area, in which the cieling would need to be covered.

IMO

I fail to see where paint, coverings, etc have anything to do with whether it is finished or not.

If it is used as a habitable space then it is a habitable space. If you want to call it unfinished you need at least one GFCI protected receptacle. If you want to call it finished you must meet the rest off 210 requirements.

A building code may call it finished or unfinished by what the covering materials are but the NEC does not.

 

[mivey]

We all have our idea of what finished is. Some people get in their minds that concrete is unfinished and needs GFCI protection because it is in contact with the earth. In general unfinished basements, which often have concrete floors or earthen floors, need gfci protection so people just assume if it is concrete it needs gfci.

I agree with you.