electrical enclosure access

[cbranter]

Oilfield facilities and oilwell sites

we have issues with oilfield operators opening up enclosures... to check for burnt fuses,manipulate start up timers all stuff they shouldn't be touching.

My maint foreman wants to start putting hasps on all enclosures and security tyrap /lock them?? This way we can report when they are entered to management for follow up. I think this is ridiculous

-may problem with this is why should my electrical staff be burdened with another task to dummy proof these enclosures.....wouldn't you guys agree that management has to take a better stance on how they discipline people caught enter these boxes.
-one warning and then second time termination would this be a better solution

Thoughts/ Ideas.....

 

[cowboyjwc]

Oilfield facilities and oilwell sites

we have issues with oilfield operators opening up enclosures... to check for burnt fuses,manipulate start up timers all stuff they shouldn't be touching.

My maint foreman wants to start putting hasps on all enclosures and security tyrap /lock them?? This way we can report when they are entered to management for follow up. I think this is ridiculous

-may problem with this is why should my electrical staff be burdened with another task to dummy proof these enclosures.....wouldn't you guys agree that management has to take a better stance on how they discipline people caught enter these boxes.
-one warning and then second time termination would this be a better solution

Thoughts/ Ideas.....

Well first you have to catch them. Just because you know someone was in there doesn't mean you can prove it.

Locks are no problem, we used to lock all of our electrical rooms and closets. Just buy locks that are all keyed the same.

 

[cbranter]

Ok....

Ok....

so in your mind putting hasps on 1800 oilwell controllers and 35 MCC buildings is a viable solution?

I was just wondering where it will stop ...........How will operators reset MCCP breakers? if the doors are locked

I was just focused on the pain in the arse part of having everything locked to keep the monkeys out, when it is their disregard for safety

any feedback is appreciated

 

[eric7379]

so in your mind putting hasps on 1800 oilwell controllers and 35 MCC buildings is a viable solution?

I was just wondering where it will stop ...........How will operators reset MCCP breakers? if the doors are locked

I was just focused on the pain in the arse part of having everything locked to keep the monkeys out, when it is their disregard for safety

any feedback is appreciated

operators=non-qualified=they should not be resetting the breakers in the first place. Unless they were properly trained.

In the facility that I work at, we install locks and hasps on all enclosures and only the electricians have the keys. You might think that this would be a pain, but it is not. Yes, it keeps the monkeys out and prohibits them from messing around with equipment that they should not be messing with, but the number one reason is it keeps the monkeys from being accidentally electrocuted because they were messing around with equipment that they should not have been messing with.

OSHA and NFPA 70E standards would come into play here as far as keeping the electrical enclosures closed/locked so as to prevent unwanted access.

Keep this in mind: Try explaining your viewpoint to OSHA after someone is accidentally shocked/electrocuted because you did not want to prevent access to the electrical enclosures.

For myself, I wouldn't want it on my conscience if someone got hurt or killed because I was unwilling to do something to make the working environment safer.

Even after the enclosures are locked, the monkeys will still do things that they should not. No, you can't fix stupid. Stupid people do stupid things and they will keep doing it no matter what you do. But, you can try to make things safer by keeping the monkeys out of the electrical cabinets.

If you think that putting locks and hasps on all of the electrical enclosures is a pain in the arse, you should try reading the NFPA 70E-2009!

 

[kwired]

so in your mind putting hasps on 1800 oilwell controllers and 35 MCC buildings is a viable solution?

I was just wondering where it will stop ...........How will operators reset MCCP breakers? if the doors are locked

I was just focused on the pain in the arse part of having everything locked to keep the monkeys out, when it is their disregard for safety

any feedback is appreciated

Why is this any different than POCO's that have locks on transformers, metering equipment, sub stations, or any other equipment that would otherwise be accessable to non authorized personnel?

If you worked in a hospital, school, nursing home, or other similar place you would have a lot of locked rooms, gates, panels, etc even if you are not an electrician in these places you will run into a fair share of this type of thing.

 

[zog]

According to the NFPA 70E, a “Qualified Person" is one who is trained and knowledgeable of the construction and operation of the equipment or the specific work method, and be trained to recognize the hazards present with respect to that equipment or work method.

Such persons shall also be familiar with the use of the precautionary techniques, personal protective equipment, insulating and shielding materials, and insulated tools and test equipment. A person can be considered qualified with respect to certain tasks but still be unqualified for others.

An employee that is undergoing on the job training and who, in the course of such training, has demonstrated the ability to perform duties safely at his or her level of training and who is under the direct supervision of a qualified person shall be considered to be a qualified person for the performance of those duties.

In addition, to be permitted to work within the limited approach of exposed energized conductors and circuit parts the person shall be trained in all of the following:

Qualified employees shall be trained and competent in:
The skills and techniques necessary to distinguish exposed live parts from other parts of electric equipment
The skills and techniques necessary to determine the nominal voltage of exposed live parts
The minimum approach distances specified in this section corresponding to the voltages to which the qualified employee will be exposed, and,
The decision making process necessary to determine the degree and extent of the hazard and the personal protective equipment and job planning necessary to perform the task safely

A few notes to add to the 70E definition.

Only the employer can deem an employee qualified after they have had the proper training and have demonstrated profinency using the skills and method learned.

There is no such thing as NFPA 70E certification, going to a training course does not make an employee qualified.

The most misunderstood part of the "qualified" term is that it is all emcompassing, you are "qualified" to work on a specific type or piece of equipment.

Neither a J-card, a masters license, or an engineering degree make you a "qualified person"

The word "electrician" is not anywhere in the definition of a "qualified person" meaning these rules apply to all employees and you dont have to be an electrician to be "qualified"

 

[cowboyjwc]

Oilfield facilities and oilwell sites

we have issues with oilfield operators opening up enclosures... to check for burnt fuses,manipulate start up timers all stuff they shouldn't be touching.

My maint foreman wants to start putting hasps on all enclosures and security tyrap /lock them?? This way we can report when they are entered to management for follow up. I think this is ridiculous

-may problem with this is why should my electrical staff be burdened with another task to dummy proof these enclosures.....wouldn't you guys agree that management has to take a better stance on how they discipline people caught enter these boxes.
-one warning and then second time termination would this be a better solution

Thoughts/ Ideas.....

Yes I think 1800 hasps is a viable solution. You said it yourself, "all the stuff they shouldn't be touching." Ask them how they would like it if you were over there messing with their equipment all he time.