Man hours for a 200' pull

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zappy

zappy

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CA.
My book says #4awg. is .015 per LF. x 3 = .045 per LF.

Then it says to deduct 10% for 3 wires. So I came up with 8 hours to pull 3- #4awg wires 200' in pvc underground.

This does not sound right to me. Am I doing the calculations right? 8 hours seems too long. Thank you for your help.
 
zappy said:
My book says #4awg. is .015 per LF. x 3 = .045 per LF.

Then it says to deduct 10% for 3 wires. So I came up with 8 hours to pull 3- #4awg wires 200' in pvc underground.

This does not sound right to me. Am I doing the calculations right? 8 hours seems too long. Thank you for your help.
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All math aside, one straight pull or loops?

Installing the pull rope takes time too.

How many workers will you split the eight hours between?

My book says .009 ea.
 
Volta said:
All math aside, one straight pull or loops?

Installing the pull rope takes time too.

How many workers will you split the eight hours between?

My book says .009 ea.
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2- nineties, maybe 3

Me and maybe a helper.

My book accounts for installing the fish tape, lube, setting up etc.
 
zappy said:
So I came up with 8 hours to pull 3- #4awg wires 200' in pvc underground.
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chris kennedy said:
My head says 2 men 2hrs tops. Four total man hours.
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don_resqcapt19 said:
and mine says 3 men, 2.5 hours...7.5 manhours
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My head would like to know what size PVC and did you run the conduit?

He says that there are 2 or maybe 3 ea. 90 degree bends. If these are long sweeps and the conduit is not minimum sized then this could be a piece of cake. If these are factory 90s'sand the conduit is minimum sized this could be a little harder and if there is a 90 he doesn't know about that also could change things.

With all the variables 7.5 to 8 hours is not out of the question. Remember this is an average time, this pull make take more or less time but on the average pulls don't go as well as planned unless you run the conduit yourself. If you run larger conduit to make the pull eaiser then that also cost you extra.
 
growler said:
My head would like to know what size PVC and did you run the conduit?

He says that there are 2 or maybe 3 ea. 90 degree bends. If these are long sweeps and the conduit is not minimum sized then this could be a piece of cake. If these are factory 90s'sand the conduit is minimum sized this could be a little harder and if there is a 90 he doesn't know about that also could change things.

With all the variables 7.5 to 8 hours is not out of the question. Remember this is an average time, this pull make take more or less time but on the average pulls don't go as well as planned unless you run the conduit yourself. If you run larger conduit to make the pull eaiser then that also cost you extra.
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The pipe is existing and it's 1" sch.40
 
chris kennedy said:
Good point, I based my man hrs for a conduit I ran.
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We see many one man shows, where they bid jobs, on the numbers they can install a task on their own, and when they grow and have employees they are usually shocked at the times it takes an employee to do the install, what they really miss, is the amount of income they are losing, by not estimating with real numbers, which includes employee actuals, and non productive time.
 
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Is pulling the wire the full scope of the job or part of a larger project?

If I need to get out of the shop in the morning, drive to the job, set up, pull the wire, break down, pick up mess, etc., then eight man hours may be right.
 
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Some pulls I need to bust out my pulling winch set, and it runs at a really slow speed (Greenlee). Experience has taught me to become aware of that fact when calculating how long will a wire pull take in man hours, cause although that machine makes some jobs doable that hand pulls cannot, it sure goes slower than hand pulling. By the way, a while back- two man crew, 4 3/0 and ground in 2" emt,(for voltage drop reasons) 500 ft run, several sweeps, 4 or 5 pull boxes for direction changes, one 10 hr day, using the machine.
 
zappy said:
3- #4awg wires 200' in pvc underground.
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zappy said:
2- nineties, maybe 3

Me and maybe a helper. installing the fish tape, lube, setting up etc.
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zappy said:
The pipe is existing and it's 1" sch.40
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Thinking out loud here. First I'm not sure that a fish tape would cut it ( 200ft of 3 ea #4 THWN, 1" schedule 40 PCV).

I'm thinking a 1/2" pull rope. First blow the conduit to get any dirt and gravel out and then maybe pull a rag through to get any left over dirt and debris out. Now if you have a good place to roll out the cable then one man would be enough to feed but you may need two men ( or more ) to pull the rope. A few minutes to make sure the conduit is clear is cheaper than if you were to damage the cable. Don't spare the lube and make sure the head is well made and staggered.

With the price of copper I would worry more about getting the cable pulled in good shape ( the first time ) than breaking any records on speed.

I think Don was right with three men at 2-2.5 hours of site time if everthing goes really well ( knock on wood ). But now to figure billable time Satcom is right because these guys are not going to want to be paid just for actual work time pulling. Once you add any travel time it's going to be 8 hours or more and that's with things going very smooth and no unexpected delays or mistakes.
 
growler said:
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I think Don was right with three men at 2-2.5 hours of site time if everthing goes really well ( knock on wood ). But now to figure billable time Satcom is right because these guys are not going to want to be paid just for actual work time pulling. Once you add any travel time it's going to be 8 hours or more and that's with things going very smooth and no unexpected delays or mistakes.
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Yes, my guesstimate was based on making this pull on a jobsite that you are already working on. If this is a stand alone wire pull with no other work the manhours would go way up. For a stand alone pull it would be at least 4 hours each for 3 guys.
 
growler said:
Thinking out loud here.
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Same here. I'd also want to know what direction each end of the run is pointing, and the elevations.

Up, down, horizontal, ending in a box or a trough?

Floor level, up on a scaffold, any pull-boxes in the run?
 
LarryFine said:
Same here. I'd also want to know what direction each end of the run is pointing, and the elevations.

Up, down, horizontal, ending in a box or a trough?

Floor level, up on a scaffold, any pull-boxes in the run?
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For any accurate estimate you would need all the job conditions, can you imagine a run in an active industrial production floor, with machines and loading equipment under the run.
 
LarryFine said:
Same here. I'd also want to know what direction each end of the run is pointing, and the elevations.

Up, down, horizontal, ending in a box or a trough?

Floor level, up on a scaffold, any pull-boxes in the run?
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Residential job. Outside. Horizontal for the most part until each end 90's up into there panel. One man, 8 hours? That's what my book said. "Electrical unit and assembly cost data" by Al Sauerbier
 
Can be done in less than eight, by one guy, but it is sooooo much easier with two.

Pull and make up the wires on both ends, less than eight hours for one guy, if you are still talking about
#4 AWG and the pipe is good. Add a helper and you have eight man hours spent by the time the job is done.
 
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