208 to 380 Volt?

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Keri_WW

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I'm on a job that has a 208 to 380 volt transformer which then feeds a panel rated at 480V. The 480V panel feeds equipment rated for 380V.

I've never seen 380 volt before. Is this system legit? Is it an isolation transformer, because I cannot find any information on this type of step-up?
 
I'm on a job that has a 208 to 380 volt transformer which then feeds a panel rated at 480V. The 480V panel feeds equipment rated for 380V.

I've never seen 380 volt before. Is this system legit? Is it an isolation transformer, because I cannot find any information on this type of step-up?
It's most likely a system designed for 380-415 50Hz and had an engineer/specifier who doesn't understand that it is the volts/Hz which should be (USUALLY) maintained. Be wary.
 
The panel rating of 480 volts is an upper limit. So yes, you can supply it with 380 volts, and use it to supply equipment rated for 380 volts. I would tend to want to verify that the equipment really is rated for 380.

I recently completed a project for an overseas facility for which the distribution system was 220 volts phase to neutral, 380 volts phase to phase, and 60 hertz. Is there any chance that the equipment comes from a foreign country?
 
I'm on a job that has a 208 to 380 volt transformer which then feeds a panel rated at 480V. The 480V panel feeds equipment rated for 380V.

I've never seen 380 volt before. Is this system legit? Is it an isolation transformer, because I cannot find any information on this type of step-up?

What people call an isolation transformer usually has a 1:1 ratio (although technically ALL transformers provide isolation :) ). It is just an unusual voltage change so its an unusual transformer. Somebody either ordered it specially made or it came from out of the country (or both).

There isn't anything inherently wrong with the situation you are describing, but I'd probably eyeball it closer than normal just to be sure since it is unusual.
 
Yep, it's okay. It matters that the source and load match.

Definitely check on the frequency issue as George suggested.


... (although technically ALL transformers provide isolation :) ) ...
... (ceptin' auto-transformers, of course ;)) ...
 
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I've done several 208-380V installs similar to what you mentioned. The biggest difference I noted was the mandatory 5 wires leaving the transformer, and having to resize conduit accordingly. As the world gets smaller, here in America we are having to accept world standards, not just our own.

Yes, our closest standard is 480V for the panel & OCP, as someone else mentioned, be very careful that the equipment is listed for 60 Htz, not just 50. On occasion I have had inspectors complain that the writing on the labels was only in Asian characters, not English, or that there was no UL listing on the equipment. Fortunately for me the customer supplied the equipment, and I was able to leave the ability to prove to the inspectors that the equipment was "SAFE" up to the customer.
 
What people call an isolation transformer usually has a 1:1 ratio
(although technically ALL transformers provide isolation :) ).

Dr,

To some degree, all transformers provide some good isolation.
That brings back memories from 30 years ago. :)

In a hospital ICU, or in a research setting, things get much more specific.

There is a capacitive coupling (Electrostatic coupling) between the transformer coil windings.
High impulse signals (transients from elevator motors, lightning, etc) can couple from primary into secondary circuits, and eventually end up coupling through power supplies for devices connected intravenously into a patient. These signals can have a high frequency characteristic (1 Mega Hz for example) which acts differently than what we experience at 60 Hz.

In a patient having 1 K Ohm blood path resistance, a 10 micro Amp signal would be pushed by 10 milli Volts. Some patients (such as those in ICU) cannot tolerate even a few milli Volts extra signal directed into their hearts.

This is where the real "Isolation Transformer" comes into the system, as the first line of defense against transient signals.

To reduce the electrostatic coupling between the primary and secondary windings, there is a designed-in capacitive shield which was grounded to the primary system. The secondary system carried its own ground as a perfectly 'derived' power system.

Transient signals are generated by high frequency radio, elevator motors shutting down, lightning hitting the building, etc. These transient signals can couple through an electronic device power supply and directly onto the devices circuit board, and possibly end up inside the patient. I have seen and resolved examples of transients of all these types. We had radio signals passing through our research instruments. We had elevator motors shutdown (generating an inductive pulse in the power system for the building) and shutting down a research lab. We had lightning entering a printer signal cable, and finding its way into everything in a lab (back door effect).

In designing electronic instruments for research on human patients, I had to incorporate ferrite beads on ALL wires/conductors from the outside of the device cabinet. I had to design-in instrumentation amp circuits that had common-mode rejection ratio into the 100 dB range. We put the instruments into a Faraday shielded room, and then everything was quiet enough to gather data. We gathered data via skin conduction on patients. We had three AM radio stations that would force their signals into out instrumentation, unless we went to extremes to keep out the transient signals.

The point is,
that a patient connected intra-venously to equipment can be affected by transient signals.
That is where the true "isolation transformer" comes into play.

The NEC specs 5 milli Amps as the trigger level for GFCI devices.
In my duties, I measured at 10 micro Amps level for hot-ground leakage.
These standards were set by the JACH for hospitals,
and equipment was specifically designed to measure at these levels.
The real "Isolation Transformer" fits into these scheme of preventing transients
from entering the patient device electrical system.

That brings back memories from 30 years ago. :)
That is getting OFF the Subject, however.
So, back to 208 / 380 Volts.
 
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Thanks for all of the advice guys! The owner equipment is in fact rated at 380V and is definitely not USA made.
 
Thanks for all of the advice guys! The owner equipment is in fact rated at 380V and is definitely not USA made.
Then, to reiterate what GeorgeB and the Fine man have said, check and re-check that the equipment is suitable for your supply frequency.
 
Seen many times on Germany equipment. 60hz is 20% faster than 50% on motors. For things like relays and contactors it makes little difference.
 
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