How do you pay/bill for windshield time?

[ActionDave]

Not talking about service work in this case, it is new work on an existing cell site.

Three hour drive to the site, eight hours work, three hours home. Would you pay or expect overtime in a case such as this?

 

[Buck Parrish]

You should either charge for the driving time.
Or have them get some contractor that is closer.

 

[ActionDave]

You should either charge for the driving time.
Or have them get some contractor that is closer.

Drive time will be charged, but at what rate? OT only when the tools are out?

 

[hurk27]

Better check labor laws, an employer is responsible for employee hours, if you are controlling their time, and this includes to and from job sites, if I get hurt driving to a job site I can collect worker comp, and I did when I was hit head on by another car, this includes over time on 40, this is very confusing and gets abused all the time, I have had employers who didn't pay drive time to jobs miles away, but in the end when a co-worker went to the labor board the company had to pay us back pay on all the time we did driving, not sure how it all works but it is on the DOL web site somewhere. the last company I worked for did pay driving time, and mileage on your vehicle if it was for going to a job site over a certain miles from the shop and it was necessary you took your own vehicle, but for the most part we would meet at the shop and go from their, but lets say they had a reason they needed to take their own vehicle like having an appointment they needed to get to right after work, then there mileage wasn't covered. just the driving time. of course they could take the vehicle anytime they wanted but they would only get mileage if it was required for a reason, other wise if there was a seat available in a truck going that way then they were supposed to ride to the job site.but still on company time.

 

[iwire]

Three hour drive to the site, eight hours work, three hours home.

IMO at 3 hr each way you are getting into hotel distance.

I would be thinking four 10s and 3 nights hotel.

 

[iwire]

Where I am, the law as I understand it would require the company to pay the guys for all the drive time if we said 'meet at the shop and then drive 3 hours to the job'.

On the other hand if we say meet at the job for a 7 AM start time we do not have to pay for that drive time nor would we be paying the bills if they got in an accident on the way.

But again I start thinking rooms ones you approach 6 hours of road time a day, I think that much drive time lowers production along with costing a lot of fuel.

 

[readydave8]

IMO at 3 hr each way you are getting into hotel distance.

I would be thinking four 10s and 3 nights hotel.

I agree and in fact would do motel to save even shorter drive time. I've rented rooms 1 1/4 hour from home, worked 3 12's, more than once.

Part of my equation is that I'll get as much or more done in 3 12's as 5 8's because less setup, unpacking, loading tools at the end of the day.

 

[Rewire]

Not talking about service work in this case, it is new work on an existing cell site.

Three hour drive to the site, eight hours work, three hours home. Would you pay or expect overtime in a case such as this?

I would bill for 14 hours

 

[Ruff-N]

I would bill for 14 hours

Agreed, but all this should have been brought out in the pre construction meetings with the client and your men doing the job, if drive time or per diem for hotel room wasn't in your bid, as this is new work, then the client will throw a fit if you try to squeeze that cost in your bill after the fact and then you have the problem with the OT. JM2c worth

 

[qcroanoke]

I would bill for 14 hours

With the shoe on the other foot- If I were the employee working by the hour I would expect to be paid overtime after 40 hours riding or not.
If on salary I would expect my regular salary no matter how many hours worked, driving or not.
For the record, I'm on salary and I've worked my share of 12 hour days for 8 hours pay.

 

[220/221]

Well, ya gotta pay your guys drive time. How much and how you pay them is probably negotiable.

Even if it's only a one day deal, I'd spring for a cheap motel and go up the night before. The productivity would be worth the added expense.

Do the math and lay out options, then get your guy's opinions.

 

[LarryFine]

Three hour drive to the site, eight hours work, three hours home. Would you pay or expect overtime in a case such as this?

As the boss, it's my responsibility to charge for travel, so I can pay my guys for travel.

As the employee, I would see it as a 14-hour day, and expect to get paid accordingly.

I also agree with comparing a hotel stay over driving six hours every day. That's nuts.

 

[WorkSafe]

Question,

Would you guys charge by the hour, or by the mile? I know whenever we had to travel for work, it was always by the mile.

 

[nhfire77]

Question,

Would you guys charge by the hour, or by the mile? I know whenever we had to travel for work, it was always by the mile.

I have two ways of doing it. I have a set service area I charge a flat rate for The first hour, Outside that I charge $1/mile one way from the office for service.

Any job that would take that much time and travel I would pay for the drive to and from. So they would get 3 hours each way, plus hotel and meals. To and from the hotel is part of the job and paid as well. That would be my basis for labor.

 

[petersonra]

It seems to me there are really two different issues here.

One is what to charge the customer. It seems to me the short answer is whatever you agreed to charge him for your services up front. This is not something that should be dumped on a customer after the fact.

The other issue is what to pay your men. There are many variables in this equation.

One variable is what the labor laws in your state say. Some states have specific rules about this situation and others do not.

Another is local union rules if that's an issue. There might even be two locals involved.

Generally, how far your men have to drive to get to the job site is really their problem and not yours. But it seems to me to be grossly unfair to take a job an unusually long way from home and expect your crews to just show up at 6:00 am like it was down the block. OTOH, life is often unfair.

IMO:

If the company is providing transportation or paying mileage, the company should pay for the time spent going back and forth.

If the company is paying for meals, hotels and similar expenses, the company ought to be paying for the time spent getting to the hotel and back home, but not for the time spent getting to and from the hotel to the job site.

There is no provision in any labor laws for an electrician to be on salary. If he is being paid for more than 40 hours in a week, the time beyond 40 should be time and a half, and whatever time he spends on the employer's business should be paid.

There is a big difference between a company having a long term project at a construction site outside their normal area of operations and a service call that is 3 hours away, and they should be treated differently WRT travel time and expenses.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Where I am, the law as I understand it would require the company to pay the guys for all the drive time if we said 'meet at the shop and then drive 3 hours to the job'.

On the other hand if we say meet at the job for a 7 AM start time we do not have to pay for that drive time nor would we be paying the bills if they got in an accident on the way.

But again I start thinking rooms ones you approach 6 hours of road time a day, I think that much drive time lowers production along with costing a lot of fuel.

At the company I used to work for this is how we did it, but then we went to half pay for travel time, because there was no production. My argument was that I didn't get to pick the jobs, if I did they would all be close to home. At the time also Saturday was a normal day (no overtime) so when we went to half time travel time I told them that it would be time and a half after 40 and since I worked an average of 50 hours a week it kind of just balanced out.

With the city I get paid to travel and if I have to leave at 6 in the morning it's time and a half, a hotel over 75 miles and per diem. So if I'm at, say, an IAEI meeting and we meet on Saturday too, I get time and a half until I get home.

 

[MAK]

I travel to job sites 3 hours away fairly frequently (Maine and Vermont) and my company pays for partial travel. As an employee traveling from my home to the first job of the day the first hour is unpaid anything after that is paid. The first hour traveling home is unpaid as well but after that the company pays.
If I were told to drive 3 hours up and 3 hours back and not get paid for it I would look for a new employer. Time away from my family for work related tasks should be compensated in my opinion.

 

[Ruff-N]

IMO some companys will make all sorts of rules and restrictions on how an employee gets paid and somtimes it can get confusing:-? like I stated before when asked to look at a job for bid all these things should be upfront to the customer and the employee, none of this after the fact billing and telling the employees "Well I can't pay you OT for the drive home and this and that" I worked for an EC doing service work who expected me drop off an employee at the shop on my own time, I drove the company van home and sometimes I would be working 10 minutes from my house but at the end of the day I would have to drive 40 minutes on my own time to the shop drop this kid off and then drive home another 40 minutes, I did it twice, I let the EC know no more of this he said OK park the van hand in your company issue items, did so and walked away, got a call 2 days later "EC says need you back ASAP this is killing me" I went back got a $2.50 raise and paid travel time to drop this kid off at the shop. This kid that was so important to the EC:roll: Quit 1 month later to go into retail, he could not take the work. In conclusion: Before you submit a bid make sure you, the client, and your employees know how 1) you will bill this project 2) your employees know and agree to how thier pay is stuctured for special projects 3) Don't think you will get paid for after the fact items that were not known by the client and agreed to upfront. 4) and you might lose a good hard working employee if you try to weasle your way around how he gets paid on these special project. This is only M2c worth and not an attack on anyone on this forum.

 

[stevenje]

But it seems to me to be grossly unfair to take a job an unusually long way from home and expect your crews to just show up at 6:00 am like it was down the block. OTOH, life is often unfair.

Some times the shop just doesn't care how far you drive. A few years ago the shop I was working for had a project about a mile from my house but they sent me 60 miles to another jobsite.
The shop would then send guys to the jobsite near my house that only lived a couple of miles from the other jobsite. When I asked why not move a few of us around, to cut down on our personal gas and travel time the answer was "we will think about it." I never did get a reply. You can bet if the shop had to pay for any of this, things would have been different.

 

[Ruff-N]

Some times the shop just doesn't care how far you drive. A few years ago the shop I was working for had a project about a mile from my house but they sent me 60 miles to another jobsite.
The shop would then send guys to the jobsite near my house that only lived a couple of miles from the other jobsite. When I asked why not move a few of us around, to cut down on our personal gas and travel time the answer was "we will think about it." I never did get a reply. You can bet if the shop had to pay for any of this, things would have been different.

Been down that road before, I have never understood that logic:roll:. IMO if its doable put a guy on projects close to home he will be happy and his productivity will go up and he will be more willing to work the OT when need be. I only worked for one EC that did put you on projects close to home he never had a problem with this and we were all more than willing to put in a little more into the company good guy good to work for and he always threw a end of the year party. ECs need to remember its a two way street if we can meet in the middle all will run smoother. The EC needs the employee and the employee needs the EC, common sense.