Live ballast replacement injuries

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Anybody have a link to the number of injuries or deaths due to live ballast replacements? I know there must be data somewhere that backs up the requirement of the fixture disconnects?
 
H

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
billsnuff said:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=94963
Click to expand...

That helps some, but I need some hard data, I have some managers that are trying to get me to loosen our requirement of full Arc flash gear if installing HID lamps in a live fixture, I do not let them change ballast live under no circumstances, but they are complaining about the heat outdoors in parking lots with the gear on replacing lamps. Upper management backs me completely on it, but lower management complains that they have never heard of anybody getting hurt installing lamps live. I have heard of lamps exploding, and of one incident where a lighting tech was electrocuted by trying to remove a broken lamp live (Darwin at work)
 
Electric-Light

Electric-Light

Senior Member
hillbilly1 said:
That helps some, but I need some hard data, I have some managers that are trying to get me to loosen our requirement of full Arc flash gear if installing HID lamps in a live fixture, I do not let them change ballast live under no circumstances, but they are complaining about the heat outdoors in parking lots with the gear on replacing lamps. Upper management backs me completely on it, but lower management complains that they have never heard of anybody getting hurt installing lamps live. I have heard of lamps exploding, and of one incident where a lighting tech was electrocuted by trying to remove a broken lamp live (Darwin at work)
Click to expand...

Why does the power need to be on to replace HID lamps in daylight? It's not that hard to radio someone else to turn the power on/off at the panel.
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Electric-Light said:
Why does the power need to be on to replace HID lamps in daylight? It's not that hard to radio someone else to turn the power on/off at the panel.
Click to expand...
Plus, that's a wonderful way to find out the normal lighting control doesn't open all lines. :roll:
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
hillbilly1 said:
That helps some, but I need some hard data, I have some managers that are trying to get me to loosen our requirement of full Arc flash gear if installing HID lamps in a live fixture, I do not let them change ballast live under no circumstances, but they are complaining about the heat outdoors in parking lots with the gear on replacing lamps. Upper management backs me completely on it, but lower management complains that they have never heard of anybody getting hurt installing lamps live. I have heard of lamps exploding, and of one incident where a lighting tech was electrocuted by trying to remove a broken lamp live (Darwin at work)
Click to expand...

If OSHA was to come by, or if you have an accident these mangers will quickly find out that you cannot perform that task live with or without the PPE.
 
H

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
iwire said:
If OSHA was to come by, or if you have an accident these mangers will quickly find out that you cannot perform that task live with or without the PPE.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't like them doing it, but unfortunately all of our competitors are, so I have to try and find a happy medium to still be competitive. They are gripping about having to wear the hardhat and sheild to protect their eyes, the jacket to help protect them from any burns from exploding lamps, gloves and protectors to help protect from accidental shock if the lamp breaks exposing the electrode. It's hot in the summer I know, but if they want to do it hot, thats the only way I let them. If they complain about it too much, they will just have to suck it up and turn it off only!
 
Electric-Light

Electric-Light

Senior Member
hillbilly1 said:
Yeah, I don't like them doing it, but unfortunately all of our competitors are, so I have to try and find a happy medium to still be competitive. They are gripping about having to wear the hardhat and sheild to protect their eyes, the jacket to help protect them from any burns from exploding lamps, gloves and protectors to help protect from accidental shock if the lamp breaks exposing the electrode. It's hot in the summer I know, but if they want to do it hot, thats the only way I let them. If they complain about it too much, they will just have to suck it up and turn it off only!
Click to expand...

There's a big difference between bare arc tube and a lamp with an outer bulb(like the one used for parking lot) though. The arc tube can sometimes explode but going through the outer bulb is uncommon enough that HID lamps are routinely used in open luminaires. If the chance of arc tube burst causing pieces of glass to come raining down is high enough, I don't think they'd be allowed.

They have special self-extinguishing lamp with a fusible link that breaks on exposure to air so that people are protected from UV if the outer bulb breaks, but they're usually used for gyms/school grounds with open high bays in case a flying ball/vandalism breaks the lamp. I don't know anywhere where the routine is to clear occupants off gym floor on lights on in case glass comes showering down.

Are full PPE required by OSHA for metal halide replacement? You're replacing parking lot HIDs, not naked 15kW high pressure xenon IMAX projection lamps.

If you're still paranoid, how much more would it cost you to have a near minimum wage helper/handyman just for flipping switches on command?
 
Last edited:
H

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
Electric-Light said:
....... The arc tube can sometimes explode but going through the outer bulb is uncommon enough that HID lamps are routinely used in open luminaires. If the chance of arc tube burst causing pieces of glass to come raining down is high enough, I don't think they'd be allowed...............
Click to expand...

The lamp failure rate was apparently enough to require hi-bay fixtures to be enclosed unless using a lamp rated for an open fixture. They started that a few years ago if I remember correctly. I have run across quite a few HID lamps that failed breaching the outer bulb. No fun opening a parking lot fixture lens with lots of shards of glass falling out into the bucket, hard to catch all of them in a box on a windy day.
 
B

broadgage

Senior Member
Location
London, England
I have never seen any need for arc flash resistant clothing when replacing lamps, HID or otherwise.
I wear gloves and eye protection, ordinary work gloves unless the fixture is live, in which case I would consider linesmans gloves.

Surely, the purpose of arc flash clothing is to reduce the risk of burns in the event of flashover or arcing in high current switchgear.
The risks are real on service entrance conductors, large switchgear, high capacity feeders, POCO mains and so on.
But is there realy much risk from a 30 amp or less lighting circuit ?

Should arc flash resistant clothing be worn to plug a range into a 50 amp outlet ? surely not, yet the risks appear similar.
 
H

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
broadgage said:
I have never seen any need for arc flash resistant clothing when replacing lamps, HID or otherwise.
I wear gloves and eye protection, ordinary work gloves unless the fixture is live, in which case I would consider linesmans gloves.

Surely, the purpose of arc flash clothing is to reduce the risk of burns in the event of flashover or arcing in high current switchgear.
The risks are real on service entrance conductors, large switchgear, high capacity feeders, POCO mains and so on.
But is there realy much risk from a 30 amp or less lighting circuit ?

Should arc flash resistant clothing be worn to plug a range into a 50 amp outlet ? surely not, yet the risks appear similar.
Click to expand...

You are not underneath the 50 amp outlet when you plug it in, also there is not much chance that you will be sprayed with glass plugging it in either. Lets compare apples to apples, and oranges to oranges. Safety glasses would protect the eyes, but not the face from flying glass. It's not the arc flash thats the big hazard here. The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards not allowing relamping while live at all.
 
S

shepelec

Senior Member
Location
Palmer, MA
I think it's too dangerous to start the truck and leave the shop. Especially on a Monday morning.:grin:

All fruit thrown had better be fresh!!
 
Electric-Light

Electric-Light

Senior Member
I don't feel safe talking on my phone in my car at red light in a fear I might get rear-ended by someone thats driving and talking behind me :\
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top