My maint. superviser was telling me he is going to install a emergency generator in his house. He was explaining to me how if the main breaker on his panel was not shut off the electric would go out the service entrance cables to other houses for his niehbors to use. I told him that electricity will flow like water and go to the nearest path and not 300 feet to the next house. Was i correct?
nearest path
- Thread starter Timboe
- Start date
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
You are incorrect it will flow through every possible path. Paths of least resistance will carry the most current but it will travel down all connected paths.
An isolation device - usually a transfer switch, manual or automatic, must be installed to prevent backfeeding into the utility.
Even if you leave the safety of a POCO employee working to restore power during an outage and possibly being at risk by your back feeding generator out of the picture, you still do not want to have your generator trying to power everyone else that is connected to your lines - for one thing you most likely do not have a big enough generator to supply power to them, if they still have connected loads it will try to power them.
If your generator is not in phase with the utility when power is restored you may not have a working generator anymore either.
An isolation device - usually a transfer switch, manual or automatic, must be installed to prevent backfeeding into the utility.
Even if you leave the safety of a POCO employee working to restore power during an outage and possibly being at risk by your back feeding generator out of the picture, you still do not want to have your generator trying to power everyone else that is connected to your lines - for one thing you most likely do not have a big enough generator to supply power to them, if they still have connected loads it will try to power them.
If your generator is not in phase with the utility when power is restored you may not have a working generator anymore either.
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- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
You are wrong in and your water analogy can prove you wrong. Think about the pipes in your house- water flows to all of them, not just to the biggest or the ones closest to the main water pipe. Electricity is the same- it takes ALL paths.
Add to this the fact that transformers can step up voltage as easily as they can step down. If you don't set up your generator properly you are not sending electricity down the street for the neighbor to use you are energizing a power line that a lineman is going to, or is working on and you could easily get someone killed.
Add to this the fact that transformers can step up voltage as easily as they can step down. If you don't set up your generator properly you are not sending electricity down the street for the neighbor to use you are energizing a power line that a lineman is going to, or is working on and you could easily get someone killed.
Generator Connection
Generator Connection
Connection a generator without a proper transfer switch can energize the distribution line upstream of your local distribution transformer.
After a storm or other event that has caused an outage a lineman can be electrocuted by a an improperly connected generator.
Not only can they be electrocute they have been. The people who hooke them have been proscuted and convicted of manslaughter. After that the lawyers get into the civil suit and the guy would be lucky if got to keep his house.
Generator Connection
Connection a generator without a proper transfer switch can energize the distribution line upstream of your local distribution transformer.
After a storm or other event that has caused an outage a lineman can be electrocuted by a an improperly connected generator.
Not only can they be electrocute they have been. The people who hooke them have been proscuted and convicted of manslaughter. After that the lawyers get into the civil suit and the guy would be lucky if got to keep his house.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
I'll sum it up in that there are 3 electricians, who back fed the utility line after hurricane Charlie in Florida, they each killed a line man, and are now each is spending 15 years behind bars.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
If this supervisor wants to depend upon remembering to turn off the main breaker instead of doing the install properly by installing a transfer switch, then it is him taking a chance of killing a line man, and he will be the one landing in jail, do not do this!
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
If you were correct, only one appliance or other electrical device would work at a time in your house.
Tell him that, if he can send power upstream intentionally, he has an illegal and dangerous installation.
In other words, it is physically impossible to do so in a legal install. That's the funtion of a transfer switch.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
As far as linemen getting injured or killed from someone feeding their system with a generator, most POCO's anymore have safety procedures that include placing bonding jumpers on the lines and grounding the jumpers (at least on their primary conductors). If they do this your generator will get overloaded by trying to supply the current to the fault.
I suppose there may be more risk if they are working on secondary conductors but then they are usually closer to the generator and may very well be aware of its existance.
Still not a good enough excuse not to install proper transfer equipment.
I suppose there may be more risk if they are working on secondary conductors but then they are usually closer to the generator and may very well be aware of its existance.
Still not a good enough excuse not to install proper transfer equipment.
drbond24
Senior Member
- Location
- Barboursville, West Virginia
This is partially correct.....and very stupid.
It will go down the lines, the neighbors may see it although they wouldn't benefit much from it unless you're talking about a huge generator.
The problem is that it will go up the pole and 'backwards' through the transformer where it will get stepped back up to several thousand volts and be waiting on the line to kill the innocent lineman that is trying to fix the downed/damaged power line so he can provide for his wife and children.
What you've described is dangerous, potentially lethal in fact, and very stupid. A transfer switch is required to verify that when the generator is running it can't be backfeeding the lines. In case it isn't already clear at this point, backfeeding the lines is very, very bad. I don't care what ideas he has to the contrary, it may as well be attempted murder. If the right set of circumstances comes along, the murder will be more than attempted.
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76nemo
Senior Member
- Location
- Ogdensburg, NY
76nemo
Senior Member
- Location
- Ogdensburg, NY
Sorry, couldn't see my first post.
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hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Guess we wanted to make sure the OP knew the danger of not using a transfer switch, and the importance of following and understanding the code?
You know how it is, its hard to get a point across LOL, If you think about it, and realy read the OP you kind of get that a transfer switch wasn't even on his mind:roll:
Guess we scared him away
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