Testing a fuse

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Rich Elec.

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
I am looking for links to articles or videos pertaining to the correct way to use a tester to test a fuse in a 3 phase application.
This would be using a criss-cross method rather than placing your tester across the fuse which could damage the tester and cause injury to the user.

I know that I have seen a video online, but I can't track it down.

Help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Rich
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
How would a voltage tester placed across an open fuse get damaged. I don't see that as being any different from placing the tester phase to phase.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
This would be using a criss-cross method rather than placing your tester across the fuse which could damage the tester and cause injury to the user.
How would a voltage tester placed across an open fuse get damaged. I don't see that as being any different from placing the tester phase to phase.
I concur with Don. Voltage is voltage, and line-to-line is the highest voltage available from a source.

Having a load in series with a tester is never worse. The load's current is not "forced" through the tester.
 

btharmy

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
Having a load in series with a tester is never worse. The load's current is not "forced" through the tester.

I respectfully have to disagree. When testing from line to line, the tester IS the load. When checking a fuse in, lets say an energized 200a. 480v disconnect, if one was to put his tester in series with a bad fuse (top to bottom) the meter and its leads become the only current path for that particular phase of the load supplied by the disco. It BECOMES the fuse, previously blown (possibly due to a dead short down stream from the disco) thus passing who knows how much fault current thru the meter. Am I on track with my reasoning? If not, fill me in. I have always held to this thinking because I have never been convinced otherwise.
 

cpal

Senior Member
Location
MA
I respectfully have to disagree. When testing from line to line, the tester IS the load. When checking a fuse in, lets say an energized 200a. 480v disconnect, if one was to put his tester in series with a bad fuse (top to bottom) the meter and its leads become the only current path for that particular phase of the load supplied by the disco. It BECOMES the fuse, previously blown (possibly due to a dead short down stream from the disco) thus passing who knows how much fault current thru the meter. Am I on track with my reasoning? If not, fill me in. I have always held to this thinking because I have never been convinced otherwise.


Your caution is wise, but placing a listed volt meter in series with a load is not uncommon. Most voltmeters will have a significant amount of resistance depending upon the scale selected. Usually 40, 000 ohms per volt. (kinda sorta),, I think VTVM's were even higher. If a meter on 480 is added in series and presents 100,000ohms the current flow thru the meter is approxamately 2 Ma. If the class of the meter is ok for the circuit and the safety measures are followed then risk is minimized. Short circuits are considered very low resistance. The bigger problem would be violating 70E and the class of meter
Type I, II, III, or IV!!!!
Also the PPE is important but thats another related class.
 

wptski

Senior Member
Location
Warren, MI
A high impedance tester like a Fluke T5 is no problem but the low impedance like the Fluke T+/Pro the following is in the instructions because it loads the circuit.

For voltages above 240 V, you must only connect to a voltage source for a MAXIMUM of 30s and then disconnect for a MINIMUM of 300s.

What about a Wiggy?
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I respectfully have to disagree. When testing from line to line, the tester IS the load.
Yes, but even then, the tester itself limits its current because of its impedance.
When checking a fuse in, lets say an energized 200a. 480v disconnect, if one was to put his tester in series with a bad fuse (top to bottom) ...
In parallel with the fuse, actually.
... the meter and its leads become the only current path for that particular phase of the load supplied by the disco. It BECOMES the fuse, previously blown (possibly due to a dead short down stream from the disco) thus passing who knows how much fault current thru the meter.
I know how much current: the exact same as when it's connected across a source of the same voltage as that which exists across that blown fuse.
Am I on track with my reasoning? If not, fill me in. I have always held to this thinking because I have never been convinced otherwise.
Sorry, but off track. The lowest the load's impedance could ever be would be a direct short, which would be the same as connecting the tester across the source, line tro line.

It's no difference than screwing a 100w bulb into a 120v plug-fuse socket as a tester. The most current the load could cause would be the same as placing the bulb directly to line and neutral.

No boom.
 

SG-1

Senior Member
Here is a criss-cross method by fluke: half of the measurements are checking for phase voltage.

http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2042036_A_w.pdf

If the fuse is longer than the distance between the tops of the fuse holders, then it is much safer to measure between the top & bottom of the fuse, because your lead tips are farther apart. This may be part of the logic of the criss-cross method. You do not have to use the criss-cross method to keep the probes at maximum distance from each other.

Measuring each fuse from top to bottom is a simpler method of finding a bad fuse than the one shown by Fluke. Measuring phase to phase voltage it would be safer to have one probe at the top of a fuse & measure to the bottom of the other two, after checking for a blown fuse & not finding one.

As stated before only a very small current can pass through the voltage circuit of a modern meter due to imput impedance, one meter I use (Fluke 27) has 10 Meg Ohm of impedance on the voltage setting. The current that passes through the meter is determined by the meter impedance. The danger is getting the leads too close together while taking a measurement or having the meter set up to measure current.


Here is a link to testing Live Circuits Safely.

http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/2105730_A_w.pdf
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
NFPA 70B recommends checking fuse continuity during scheduled maintenance, but testing to assure proper operation and protection against overcurrent conditions is not required. However, when testing is done, fuses should be tested in accordance with the NFPA 70B Section 18-10 (Protective Device Testing) as follows:

?Test with continuity Tester to verify the fuse is not open.
?Resistance readings can be taken and should be compared against values recommended by the manufacturer.
?Where manufacturers? data is not readily available, resistance deviations of more than 50% for identical fuses should be investigated.

A common practice when electricians are testing fuses is to touch the end caps of the fuse with their probes. Contrary to popular belief, fuse manufacturers do not generally design their knife-blade fuses to have electrically energized fuse caps during normal fuse operation (See attachment).

Electrical inclusion of the caps into the circuit occurs as a result of the coincidental mechanical contact between the fuse cap and terminal extending through it. In most brands of knife blade fuses, this mechanical contact is not guaranteed; therefore, electrical contact is not guaranteed. Thus, a resistance reading taken across the fuse caps is not indicative of whether or not the fuse is open.
 

wptski

Senior Member
Location
Warren, MI
That's a duty cycle due to heat, of course.

That's what I use, and it behaves as I described above. (Yes, it's CAT-III)
Probably a Knopp K-60? It's marked as 10 seconds ON and 5 minutes OFF at 600V.

Some electricians that I worked with are long gone along with the real Wiggy that they used on old relay logic. I can't remember that exact situations but I've seen them use a Wiggy with their low impedance to jump/bypass a component as a test. I think this was said not to be a good practice and could only be done for a short period of time.
 

Denis

Senior Member
Location
50156
Most voltmeters will have a significant amount of resistance depending upon the scale selected. Usually 40, 000 ohms per volt. (kinda sorta),, I think VTVM's were even higher.

Since you mentioned VTVM, here is some reading http://tone-lizard.com/VTVM.htm

You should note that the input resistance is constant though out the range switch. That is, the input resistance is 10Meg, whether the range switch is operated on the 1-volt position or the 100-volt position. Accordingly, the ohms-per-volt sensitivity changes with the range selected. In this example, the sensitivity is 10Meg on the 1-volt range, and 100K on the 100-volt range. This is still significantly higher than the typical 20,000 ohms-per-volt of analog VOM's of the day. What is further done usually is to use an isolation probe, where a 1Meg resistor is soldered into the probe casing. This effectively make the input resistance 11Meg on all ranges. If this high input impedance were not enough of a benefit, note that the voltage being measured is amplified by the two triode tubes. This isolates the low-resistance meter movement from the circuit being measured. The meter movement is located in the cathode of the bridge circuit, and the differential voltage is displayed. In practice, these two triodes are a single 12AU7, which is the most common tube to be seen in every VTVM. Some very old VTVM's I have use a 6SN7, but these are few and far between. The biggest benefit here is that the meter movement cannot 'load down' the circuit you are trying to measure. Therefore, voltage measurements are far more accurate than with a regular VOM. Is this increased accuracy necessary? Probably not, but it will come in handy later, as we'll soon see.


test top to neutral and bottom to neutral
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
I respectfully have to disagree. When testing from line to line, the tester IS the load. When checking a fuse in, lets say an energized 200a. 480v disconnect, if one was to put his tester in series with a bad fuse (top to bottom) the meter and its leads become the only current path for that particular phase of the load supplied by the disco. It BECOMES the fuse, previously blown (possibly due to a dead short down stream from the disco) thus passing who knows how much fault current thru the meter. Am I on track with my reasoning? If not, fill me in. I have always held to this thinking because I have never been convinced otherwise.

Use simple logic and you would see how wrong this is, based on this logic using a tester to measure voltage to ground would be a DEAD SHORT, whole lot worse than putting a few hundred amps through the tester.

Assuming you are using the right tool for the job.
 

Rich Elec.

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
I was sure that I had seen a video showing how testing a fuse one probe on the line side and the other probe on the load side of the same fuse was wrong. Well, I am wrong.
Here is a link to the Fluke web site.

http://www.myflukestore.com/crm_upl..._bad_or_you_can_try_this_application_note.pdf

Check out page 2.
The "Same phase voltage measurement" bullet.
According to Fluke testing a fuse from line to load, same fuse, is acceptable.
 

hkme

Member
Practical fuse testing

Practical fuse testing

I am looking for links to articles or videos pertaining to the correct way to use a tester to test a fuse in a 3 phase application.
This would be using a criss-cross method rather than placing your tester across the fuse which could damage the tester and cause injury to the user.

I know that I have seen a video online, but I can't track it down.

Help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Rich

I always use a wiggy type of tester to check fuses. This puts a "load" on the circuit to rule out what I call "Phantom" voltages. Sometimes with a digital meter, you will read voltages to a load that does not exist, as the meter will read capacitance in the circuit as a non existant ground. I test the top of one fuse to the bottom of the next one, for each set of fuses. If I don't read voltage, the fuse where I have the bottom probe is bad. This will work regardless of any connected load or not. Use proper PPE!
 

btharmy

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
I know how much current: the exact same as when it's connected across a source of the same voltage as that which exists across that blown fuse.
Sorry, but off track. The lowest the load's impedance could ever be would be a direct short, which would be the same as connecting the tester across the source, line tro line.

I'm totally on board now! I see the light!...........Not the arc flash.:grin:
 

Chev

Master Electrician @ Retired
Location
Mid-Michigan
Occupation
Retired Master Electrician, Formerly at Twin Lakes Electric and GMC
How about shutting the disconnect off and using your ohm meter to check the fuses? Or am I over simplifying this? At the same time you could check the bottom of the fuses for continuity to ground, or phase to phase short.
 
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