Trouble with dimmer

[questionstoo]

I have wired a circuit using 3 and 4 way switches in the following manner:

power to a 3 way
travelers to a 4 way
travelers to another 4 way
travelers to a 3 way dimmer to a lighting load

When I turn the power on to feed the circuit and switch the load at the dimmer (it's a toggle style with an on/off switch point at the bottom of the toggle and dimming control throughout the rest of the movement) I get the on/off action as well as the dimming ability.

When I switch any of the other 3 or 4 way switches ahead of the dimmer, the on/off section of the dimmer works but the dimming does not.

I've relocated the dimmer at the start of the circuit using a 3 way toggle in place of the old position of the dimmer and get the same phenomena.

Anyone have any ideas? (I've also tried another dimmer switch...same thing.)

 

[mxslick]

You MUST use a dimmer set with a master/slave configuration. Lutron makes them and they sell for around $50/set at the big orange store. I am reasonably sure they will work with the 4-way in the loop too.

 

[fireryan]

Can you dim in both locations using this master slave combination?

 

[curt swartz]

You MUST use a dimmer set with a master/slave configuration. Lutron makes them and they sell for around $50/set at the big orange store. I am reasonably sure they will work with the 4-way in the loop too.

Not true at all!

If you want dimming control at all switch locations then electronic multi-locations controls are required.

The OP needs to use a 3-way dimmer that has a switch in addition to the dimming control. The type of dimmer that is currently being use belongs in the landfill. A Lutron Ariadni would be the same style and work for this application.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It doesn't make any sense what the OP says. If there is only one dimmer in the circuit then it should work in either of the 3 way spots but why would the dimming ability change when the other switches are involved. You wired something incorrectly as I cannot figure what you did that would cause this situation.

 

[hurk27]

there are some very dumb designed 3-way dimmers out there that still have the click off at the bottom of the slide, when you slide the dimmer all the way down it clicks the load/hot to the other traveler, so using the other 3-ways/4-ways only turn on or off the light, which also by passes the dimmer if tried to be used again, they also come in the rotary style like this, like it was said, these are junk. get a real dimmer, look for ones that say preset, they will have a separate rocker switch at the bottom to control the off and on functions independent of the switch.

 

[questionstoo]

thanks for the replys everyone

thanks for the replys everyone

Yes, I thought as well that I must have wired something incorrectly but when I put 3 way at the each end of the circuit and 2 - 4 ways in the center and everything worked, well, I didn't know what to do.

Mxslick, why would I need a "master/slave" when there is only one dimmer in the circuit? Am I miss understanding? Thanks.

Curt Swartz, you state "3-way dimmer that has a switch in addition to the dimming control", I am wondering about what you refer to as the toggle switch has a switch built into the dimming unit. Is it possible you could send a link to the product you are thinking about? I would appreciate it.

Hurk27, I was busy replying to the others when you post came up. Thanks. May I ask you for a link to a particular switch?

 

[curt swartz]

Dennis, I agree with Wayne. These are an old style half assed type of multi location dimmer. They were designed to work in 3-way applications but not 4-way. One dimmer must be in the off position for the other one to work properly. Instead of the dimmer circuitry being connected to the common terminal it is connected to one of the travelers. When the dimmer is in the off position the other traveler is directly connected to the common.

 

[curt swartz]

Here is one dimmer that would work with the same style plate. It has a 3-way toggle switch for on/off and a slider for dimming. If you can use a "Decora" style instead there are many options available.

http://www.lutron.com/Products/Stan...hes/Ariadni-TogglerDimmer/Pages/Overview.aspx

 

[questionstoo]

All Right !!! Thanks!!!

All Right !!! Thanks!!!

Thanks everyone for the help.

Curt Swartz, I've looked at your link and and have seen the type you've referred me to. I had no idea that different "on/off" parts would work differently. Thank you.

Again, thanks Everyone.

 

[M_J_C]

I have wired a circuit using 3 and 4 way switches in the following manner:

power to a 3 way
travelers to a 4 way
travelers to another 4 way
travelers to a 3 way dimmer to a lighting load

When I turn the power on to feed the circuit and switch the load at the dimmer (it's a toggle style with an on/off switch point at the bottom of the toggle and dimming control throughout the rest of the movement) I get the on/off action as well as the dimming ability.

When I switch any of the other 3 or 4 way switches ahead of the dimmer, the on/off section of the dimmer works but the dimming does not.

I've relocated the dimmer at the start of the circuit using a 3 way toggle in place of the old position of the dimmer and get the same phenomena.

Anyone have any ideas? (I've also tried another dimmer switch...same thing.)

Sounds like you're using a conventional 3-way dimmer. You must use the dimmer at the feed (hot) end, you can put as many 4 way switches in the loop that you want until you get to the standard 3-way switch at the load end of the circuit.
A standard dimmer will have only one 'hot' input, and there is no way to satisfy this requirement when it is installed at the load end of the circuit (unless you have a constant hot there too).

If you want to dim at multiple locations you will need to purchase a model that has 'multi-location" dimming or similar terminology on the labeling.

Of course this can get really confusing if the hot and load are at the same box and the load wire is passing through along with the travelers.

 

[curt swartz]

Sounds like you're using a conventional 3-way dimmer. You must use the dimmer at the feed (hot) end, you can put as many 4 way switches in the loop that you want until you get to the standard 3-way switch at the load end of the circuit.
A standard dimmer will have only one 'hot' input, and there is no way to satisfy this requirement when it is installed at the load end of the circuit (unless you have a constant hot there too).

If you want to dim at multiple locations you will need to purchase a model that has 'multi-location" dimming or similar terminology on the labeling.

Of course this can get really confusing if the hot and load are at the same box and the load wire is passing through along with the travelers.

With standard 3-way dimmers it does not matter if they are connected to the line or load end of the circuit. With most electronic multi location dimmers the dimmer must be connected to the load end and the remotes to the line side.

 

[LarryFine]

... why would the dimming ability change when the other switches are involved.

It sounds like the dimmer circuitry is in line with one of the travelers instead of the common. The only reason I can think they would do it that way is so the other switch(es) can turn the light on even if it's "off" because it was left fully dimmed.

Added: The Lutron Toggler is my favorite toggle dimmer, and the dimmer is in line with the common terminal.

Added again: The location of standard dimmers in the circuit does not matter; with most multi-point dimmers, the master needs to be at the supply end of the circuit.

 

[curt swartz]

Added again: The location of standard dimmers in the circuit does not matter; with most multi-point dimmers, the master needs to be at the supply end of the circuit.

Larry, as I stated above with many multi location dimmers the master (dimmer) needs to be on the load end not the line end. The master will have line, load, control and sometimes a neutral. The slaved will have line, control, and sometimes a neutral. If the set does not require neutral connections you may be able to wire the dimmer on either side. Lutron Maestro's standard incandescent can be wired with the dimmer on the line or load side. On the electronic low voltage version the dimmer must be on the load side. On the Leviton controls I have used the master must be on the load side.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I was under the impression that the OP had a skylark dimmer (pictured below). I am familiar with the units you guys are talking about but that would stop the switches from working altogether. The OP states the switching works but the dimming doesn't work when the other switches are used.

I wonder if the OP tried it again the other way to see if the dimming works-- I have a suspicion the dimmer got burnt out.

 

[curt swartz]

Dennis, the OP has a toggle dimmer that does not have a separate switch. The dimmer is working exactly as it is supposed to but it is designed to have a matching dimmer installed at the other end of the circuit. One of the dimmers must be in the off position for the other one to work properly. Look up a Leviton 6643.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis, the OP has a toggle dimmer that does not have a separate switch. The dimmer is working exactly as it is supposed to but it is designed to have a matching dimmer installed at the other end of the circuit. One of the dimmers must be in the off position for the other one to work properly. Look up a Leviton 6643.

Yes, I think you are right. When he said switch at the bottom I thought he meant the rocker switch under the dimmer glide. Those switches stink and would never use them. Single pole application they are alright but not for three way. That switch must be all the way up or down for the other switches to work.

It still doesn't seem to be what the op was having problems with. Oh well.

 

[questionstoo]

diagram

diagram

Just thought there seems to be some confusion so here is a diagram. And the switch was the one that had an on/off switch position on the bottom of the toggle itself. Not a separate control as has been recommended.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Just thought there seems to be some confusion so here is a diagram.

The problem is the type of dimmer you are using. Get yourself a Lutron Ariadni dimmer and I bet your problems will disappear. Your hookup is fine.

 

[mxslick]

Not true at all!

If you want dimming control at all switch locations then electronic multi-locations controls are required.

The OP needs to use a 3-way dimmer that has a switch in addition to the dimming control. The type of dimmer that is currently being use belongs in the landfill. A Lutron Ariadni would be the same style and work for this application.

Sorry to disagree but the unit I referenced WILL work in the OP's application...I know because I installed one in a similar set-up. (Of course with ANY dimmer you will NOT have dimming adjustability at the 4-way locations..if that is what you meant by not true at all then I apologize for disagreeing.)

It was a few years back and I don't remember the specific model number, but if I drop in on a big box in the next week or so I will post the specifics.