lighting relay

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jes63

Member
Hi everyone, new to the site. had a ? on an ademco vista 20p panel. I am an electrician installing one in my own house. panel install went good, just wondering what would be the easiest way to turn on my security lighting when panel goes into alarm. I was thinking about using a RIB relay & output 17 via 4pin connector. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
 
G

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
100801-2107 EST

jes63:

The items you reference mean nothing to me.

I assume that "ademco vista 20p panel" is some sort of alarm panel. What is the alarm output device? Is it a SPDT electromechanical relay? If so what are its voltage and current ratings for the contacts? Are the contacts gold plated, or maybe a sealed reed switch?

If the output is a solid state switch, then you still need to know its limitations and logic (normally open or closed).

Does the alarm contact activate and remain in that state until some explicit reset is performed?

When an alarm condition has occurred what do you want to happen? Just a light come on, dial one or more phone numbers, flash a light or lights, sound an alarm bell, and/or something else?

.
 
J

jes63

Member
This is an alarm panel. I have a 12-2 romex ia a 4" sq which goes to my security lighting(350w) . all I am looking for is a relay that will be driven by my security panel. I have tried an optically isolated type relay that didn't seem to work. I was hoping there might be somebody familiar with this panel & what I am trying to do. But thanks for your input.
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
gar said:
100801-2107 EST

jes63:

The items you reference mean nothing to me.

I assume that "ademco vista 20p panel" is some sort of alarm panel. What is the alarm output device? Is it a SPDT electromechanical relay? If so what are its voltage and current ratings for the contacts? Are the contacts gold plated, or maybe a sealed reed switch?

If the output is a solid state switch, then you still need to know its limitations and logic (normally open or closed).

Does the alarm contact activate and remain in that state until some explicit reset is performed?

When an alarm condition has occurred what do you want to happen? Just a light come on, dial one or more phone numbers, flash a light or lights, sound an alarm bell, and/or something else?

.
Click to expand...
If using the sounder output:

From the manual:
"ALARM SOUNDER: 12V, 2.0 Amp output can drive 12V BELLS or can drive one or two 702 (series connected) self-contained 20-watt sirens. Do​
​
​
​
not connect two 702s in parallel."

(The 702 is 1.5 amps @12V but will work at 6 volts)​

 
D

dbuckley

Senior Member
Location
Canterbury, New Zealand
I had an Ademco panel in my old offfice some years back; there were a number of auxilliary outputs that one can program to do all sorts of things, and thats what I used to link to the floodlights. The outputs could drive a small relay directly.

I certainly wouldn't want to be paralleling onto the sounder lines.
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
dbuckley said:
The outputs could drive a small relay directly.
Click to expand...
For those:
Trigger outputs are normally high, and go low upon programmed condition.

The outputs can be programmed for inverted operation (normally low, go high) using*79 Menu mode.

pin 1 = output number 17 (trigger 1): 15 ohms to ground when closed (output low), open when off (output high, normal default); can be used to reset smoke detector power (must set “output normal low = yes” in *79 Menu mode, and set for zone type 54, fire zone reset, in *80 Menu mode); or can support 12V relay module (e.g., Altronix AX-RBS) that draws less than 100mA

pin 5 = output number 18 (trigger 2): 100 ohms to ground when closed (output low); open when off (output high, normal default); or can support 12V relay module that draws less than 20mA
Click to expand...
 
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N

nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
jes63 said:
Hi everyone, new to the site. had a ? on an ademco vista 20p panel. I am an electrician installing one in my own house. panel install went good, just wondering what would be the easiest way to turn on my security lighting when panel goes into alarm. I was thinking about using a RIB relay & output 17 via 4pin connector. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
Click to expand...

BTW that will work, you just need to set the reset up, as stated above.

Have you considered a lighting controls system, Crestron ($) or http://www.ilc-usa.com/
 
J

jes63

Member
I thought about that, then I was thinking about when it goes off for a fire alarm condition it is a coded output as opposed to a steady output. that would probably make the lights flash on & off.
 
mivey

mivey

Senior Member
jes63 said:
I thought about that, then I was thinking about when it goes off for a fire alarm condition it is a coded output as opposed to a steady output. that would probably make the lights flash on & off.
Click to expand...
That is correct. The sounder flashes for fire, carbon, etc.
 
dhalleron

dhalleron

Senior Member
Location
Louisville, KY
You need a low current relay on trigger output 17. It might not have enough current to drive your RIB. Try an Altronix RBSNTTL or something with a 12VDC low coil current and you can use it to drive a larger relay of needed.
 
G

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
100804-1436 EST

What is a trigger output? Is it a short time pulsed output, or is it sustained until some reset occurs? The word trigger seems to imply a pulse.

.
 
N

nhfire77

Senior Member
Location
NH
gar said:
100804-1436 EST

What is a trigger output? Is it a short time pulsed output, or is it sustained until some reset occurs? The word trigger seems to imply a pulse.

.
Click to expand...

It's a term used by the manufacturer to describe an output that follows an event. IE triggered by th event. Specifically, if the output is programmed to follow the bell out put, a burg alarm will trigger a steady output, a life safety output (fire or gas alarm) is a pulsed or code 3 output.
 
LarryFine

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
dhalleron said:
You need a low current relay on trigger output 17. It might not have enough current to drive your RIB. Try an Altronix RBSNTTL or something with a 12VDC low coil current and you can use it to drive a larger relay of needed.
Click to expand...
I did that in my home theater. The 12v trigger on my pre/pro had too low a current capacity for the 4p 25a contactor I used.

I wired it to activate a 12v 1a reed relay, which controls a 120v 10a cube relay, which energizes the 120v coil of the contactor.
 
D

dbuckley

Senior Member
Location
Canterbury, New Zealand
The other thing you can use is a solid state relay like thoose made by Crydom. They have low current and voltage triggering requirements, and can switch big loads.

And as a note; many panel outputs are NPN transistors, which means they switch the pin from floaing to ground, so the other end of your relay goes to the +12V line, not to ground. Some outputs are a switched positive voltage, they do have the other end of the relay to ground. The outputs that switch to ground are usually capable of handling a higher current than those that switch positive. You need to check the installation instructions carefully to get this stuff right. (And apologies if I'm teaching my grandma to suck eggs)
 
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