counter top rec

[hurk27]

Thats exactly it but it was hard to put in words for me. You see I wasnt sure if you could measure around the corner on the end that way, I know you can where c top continues around a 90 deg corner. Well that will save work . On back wall I would prob have to use a remodeling box close to first rec and try to get a wire over into the existing box and there is a stud between them I already checked.

I think we understood what your were saying, I just dont think you understood that we understood, e'rrrr somthing like that

it was posted a few times that you can do this, I said it back in post 13

so yes you can put a receptacle in the end wall as long as you have another within 48" down the measured along the wall line that any receptacle in located in.

 

[360Youth]

I think reason I was worried is in code where it says in a bath you cant count a rec in the end wall as being the required rec by the lav no matter how close to lav it is.

Not aware of that one. I have on more than one occasion had to place a receptacle just out side of counter space that still met the requirements. I have even placed it below countertop, ala kitchen island with no backsplash.

 

[construct]

hurk27 pretty well said it in post #13.
210.52(C)(1) says, "...no point along the wall line is more than 24 in. measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space." It does not say "back wall line; or end wall line."
Now..... if an inspector wanted to play devil's advocate: In the same scenario the last receptacle is all the way to the corner on the back wall. The counter top is 26 in. deep. An inspector could say you need another receptacle because the counter edge is 26 in. from the last receptacle. :grin::grin:

 

[LarryFine]

I think reason I was worried is in code where it says in a bath you cant count a rec in the end wall as being the required rec by the lav no matter how close to lav it is.

It does? 210.52(D) says adjacent; a side wall can be adjacent.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

hurk27 pretty well said it in post #13.

Hey I said it in post #3 but that's okay . Obviously Jetlag was having a problem with what we were saying. I hope it is clear now.

I think reason I was worried is in code where it says in a bath you cant count a rec in the end wall as being the required rec by the lav no matter how close to lav it is.

I don't know where that came from but here is the article.

210.52(D) Bathrooms. In dwelling units, at least one receptacle outlet shall be installed in bathrooms within 900 mm (3 ft) of the outside edge of each basin. The receptacle outlet shall be located on a wall or partition that is adjacent to the basin or basin countertop, or installed on the side or face of the basin cabinet not more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop.

 

[construct]

Hey I said it in post #3 but that's okay .

Sorry Dennis....that's what I get for not reading the entire post.:roll:

 

[jetlag]

hurk27 pretty well said it in post #13.
210.52(C)(1) says, "...no point along the wall line is more than 24 in. measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space." It does not say "back wall line; or end wall line."
Now..... if an inspector wanted to play devil's advocate: In the same scenario the last receptacle is all the way to the corner on the back wall. The counter top is 26 in. deep. An inspector could say you need another receptacle because the counter edge is 26 in. from the last receptacle. :grin::grin:

yes and that was the reason I was thinking that an end wall might not even count as wall space. in which case you could not measure around the corner from it. if it is wall space really to the required 24' rec from the end would really be 26 plus 24 equal 50'' . Thats why i still wonder if the end is even counted as wall space

 

[jetlag]

thanks dennis

thanks dennis

Hey I said it in post #3 but that's okay . Obviously Jetlag was having a problem with what we were saying. I hope it is clear now.




I don't know where that came from but here is the article.

Check back later i am looking for that

 

[jetlag]

Check back later i am looking for that

I guess i misunderstood that, it seems to me they mean on the wall adacent to basin to mean the wall behind the basin . The end or face of cabinet was added for handicap later. It seems to me the wall at the end is not included. The end of cabinet is not the same as a wall at the end.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I guess i misunderstood that, it seems to me they mean on the wall adacent to basin to mean the wall behind the basin . The end or face of cabinet was added for handicap later. It seems to me the wall at the end is not included. The end of cabinet is not the same as a wall at the end.

As long as it isn't lower than 12" from the countertop it can be anywhere that is 3' from the sink measured in a straight line.

 

[jetlag]

Thanks Dennis

Thanks Dennis

As long as it isn't lower than 12" from the countertop it can be anywhere that is 3' from the sink measured in a straight line.

I cant find it now, I remember there was a diagram showing a single and also a double vanity and it showed required rec for each and also said the rec cant go on the end partition wall. There is no diagram in the NEC IRC or NEC handbook for bath vanity. It had to be in one of those DIY books at supply house , if that info is wrong its just another example of the fact they should not be allowed to sell those books , im sure there are cases where people have been killed or shocked or house burned down from trying to do their own wiring using those books . They should only sell the NEc and Nec handbook at those supply places

 

[Dennis Alwon]

You are overthinking these issues. Think of what the code is trying to do. The idea in a kitchen is so that an appliance, usually with 2' cords, can reach a receptacle from anywhere on the counter.

In your kitchen example, adding one on the end wall helps comply with what the code makers want.

In the bathroom, why would it matter if it is on an end wall. If you have a vanity that has a wall on both sides with one sink, then you can add the receptacle anywhere that is within 3' of the sink but not lower than 12". If there are 2 sinks then a recep must be added to the other side unless you install a receptacle between the 2 sinks. Each sink must have a receptacle within 3' without crossing the other sink.

Generally I like the recep. on the end walls simply because there is often a full mirror across the vanities. I would rather my receptacle not be in the mirror.

 

[jetlag]

good point

good point

You are overthinking these issues. Think of what the code is trying to do. The idea in a kitchen is so that an appliance, usually with 2' cords, can reach a receptacle from anywhere on the counter.

In your kitchen example, adding one on the end wall helps comply with what the code makers want.

In the bathroom, why would it matter if it is on an end wall. If you have a vanity that has a wall on both sides with one sink, then you can add the receptacle anywhere that is within 3' of the sink but not lower than 12". If there are 2 sinks then a recep must be added to the other side unless you install a receptacle between the 2 sinks. Each sink must have a receptacle within 3' without crossing the other sink.

Generally I like the recep. on the end walls simply because there is often a full mirror across the vanities. I would rather my receptacle not be in the mirror.

And I remember now the same book that said you cant put the rec on the end wall also have a picture of a vanity on another page with a full mirrow and the rec on the end wall. If I could find that book I would send a note to get their act together.

 

[eprice]

As long as it isn't lower than 12" from the countertop it can be anywhere that is 3' from the sink measured in a straight line.

If it is mounted on a wall that is adjacent to the counter top and is within 3' I think you are ok whether or not it is more than 12" below the counter top. The "not lower than 12 in." requirement only comes into play if the receptacle is mounted on the side or face of the cabinet.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If it is mounted on a wall that is adjacent to the counter top and is within 3' I think you are ok whether or not it is more than 12" below the counter top. The "not lower than 12 in." requirement only comes into play if the receptacle is mounted on the side or face of the cabinet.

That may be what the code says but think about it--- what sense does that make..... Obviously I would never put one down low anyway but why would it be allowed on a wall but not on the cabinet?

 

[hurk27]

If it is mounted on a wall that is adjacent to the counter top and is within 3' I think you are ok whether or not it is more than 12" below the counter top. The "not lower than 12 in." requirement only comes into play if the receptacle is mounted on the side or face of the cabinet.

Guess a graghic is the best way to show, what is required by code:

 

[M4gery]

Guess a graghic is the best way to show, what is required by code:

15A is allowed?

 

[LarryFine]

15A is allowed?

I believe it is.

15a circuit, no. 15a receptacle, yes.

 

[hurk27]

15A is allowed?

well the receptacle can be a 15 amp, but the circuit has to be a 20 amp

 

[M4gery]

I believe it is.

15a circuit, no. 15a receptacle, yes.

I see. I thought it meant 15A circuit, I have to read more carefully.