Ground Dead End

[iwire]

It is not terminated -- it is dead ended. So what wire would be considered not terminated. According to you it cannot exist because everything is terminated. If it were connected to another wire it would be spliced and if it were connected to a device it would be terminated.

Dennis IMO unless the conductor passes through as is possible with conduit it terminates at the box.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Well I hadn't thought of that scenario. Perhaps I am way off.:grin: That would make much more sense.

 

[guschash]

I agree Dennis. Just did 5 that way, why waste a connector.

gus

 

[big john]

Dennis IMO unless the conductor passes through as is possible with conduit it terminates at the box.

Then under what circumstance does the conductor not terminate or splice? What would be the point of the exception?

I can see how this exception would not apply, because it does mean that if the keyless is ever changed out for a fixture with an EGC, then you will have a code violation when you go to connect 2" long EGC.

However, I did always believe "terminate" to mean "connected." In which case, that exception would make some sense. Say for example the installer (for some reason) pulled 14/3 to the fixture, but only needed 14/2. He would be allowed to short the unused conductor, because it does terminate on a device.

-John

 

[iwire]

Then under what circumstance does the conductor not terminate or splice? What would be the point of the exception?

When they pass straight through the box as is posable with single conductors and pipe.

 

[big john]

Oh, duh. I didn't think of that situation.

-John

 

[M4gery]

When they pass straight through the box as is posable with single conductors and pipe.

[IM]http://enews.penton.com/enews/electricalzone/codewatch/2007_11_13_november_13_2007/a071112_0/graphic[/IMG]

OK, that's what I was trying to figure out earlier.

So the 2" EGC dead ended in a plastic box for a keyless is terminated in the box so it does not meet the exception so it is illegal since it is breaking 300.14. Correct?

 

[ActionDave]

No, just splice on enough extra inches of wire and your back to legal.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

300.14 Length of free Conductors at outlets,Junctions and Switch Points. At least(6") of free conductor measured from the point it emerges from the cable sheath Shall be left at each outlet. page 70-132 also see 90.1 (B) Future use

If you cut the ground at 2" the next guy has to waste time making a pig tail.

It's compliant and safe.

I don't care about the next guy.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

300.14 Length of free Conductors at outlets,Junctions and Switch Points. At least(6") of free conductor measured from the point it emerges from the cable sheath Shall be left at each outlet. page 70-132 also see 90.1 (B) Future use

If you cut the ground at 2" the next guy has to waste time making a pig tail.

Did you just stop reading right there?

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Dennis IMO unless the conductor passes through as is possible with conduit it terminates at the box.

No way, there's a definition of termination, and it doesn't resemble "just any "wire that enters a box

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Then under what circumstance does the conductor not terminate or splice? What would be the point of the exception?

I can see how this exception would not apply, because it does mean that if the keyless is ever changed out for a fixture with an EGC, then you will have a code violation when you go to connect 2" long EGC.

However, I did always believe "terminate" to mean "connected." In which case, that exception would make some sense. Say for example the installer (for some reason) pulled 14/3 to the fixture, but only needed 14/2. He would be allowed to short the unused conductor, because it does terminate on a device.

-John

No,,,,,,,only if you leave it two inches long.

There is nothing that says the 6" has to be continous, you could wirenut another 4" on a be legal when the need arises for a EGC to actually TERMINATE to something.


If you pulled a home run and you helper accidentally cut the wires at 5" would you repull a homerun? or make a wirenut joint?

 

[M4gery]

No, just splice on enough extra inches of wire and your back to legal.

That's an interpretation that I could see many inspectors not agreeing with.

 

[mcclary's electrical]

That's an interpretation that I could see many inspectors not agreeing with.

PLEASE point out where it says the 6" HAS TO BE "continuous, without splice". (as the code states in other places,,,,,,,,,,but not here)

 

[ActionDave]

I'm with him^^

 

[M4gery]

PLEASE point out where it says the 6" HAS TO BE "continuous, without splice". (as the code states in other places,,,,,,,,,,but not here)

Woah! Easy there fella. I think you broke your comma key

 

[big john]

There is nothing that says the 6" has to be continous, you could wirenut another 4" on a be legal...

I hate to say it, but I really don't read it that way. 300.14 (2005NEC):

At least 6" of free conductor measured from the point in the box where it emerges from the raceway or cable sheath shall be left at each outlet...

If you wire-nut another 4" on, and then measure it, you're measuring 4" back to the wire-nut, and then 2" back to the cable sheath.

If you pulled a home run and you helper accidentally cut the wires at 5" would you repull a homerun? or make a wirenut joint?

Of course I'd wire nut it and I have a million times when the sheetrockers damage conductors and I couldn't get 6" of slack.

But I have to admit I think it's a code violation.

-John

 

[Dennis Alwon]

PLEASE point out where it says the 6" HAS TO BE "continuous, without splice". (as the code states in other places,,,,,,,,,,but not here)

The fact that 300.14 says 6" shall be left for splices seems to indicate that the wire must be 6" without splice. I am not sure I agree that 2" is compliant but that is my interpretation.

300.14 Length of Free Conductors at Outlets, Junctions, and Switch Points.
At least 150 mm (6 in.) of free conductor, measured from the point in the box where it emerges from its raceway or cable sheath, shall be left at each outlet, junction, and switch point for splices or the connection of luminaires or devices. Where the opening to an outlet, junction, or switch point is less than 200 mm (8 in.) in any dimension, each conductor shall be long enough to extend at least 75 mm (3 in.) outside the opening.
Exception: Conductors that are not spliced or terminated at the outlet, junction, or switch point shall not be required to comply with 300.14.

 

[steve1223]

As far as a dead end ground in a box. i have always pushed that up in the box first before tucking my conductor's that are being used to pin the ground up and out of the way out keep it from coming into contact with key-less

 

[mcclary's electrical]

I hate to say it, but I really don't read it that way. 300.14 (2005NEC): If you wire-nut another 4" on, and then measure it, you're measuring 4" back to the wire-nut, and then 2" back to the cable sheath.
-John

Please show me where it says that splices cannot be included in the measurement

The fact that 300.14 says 6" shall be left for splices seems to indicate that the wire must be 6" without splice. I am not sure I agree that 2" is compliant but that is my interpretation.

This is certainly open to interpretation,but again under the exemption, I don't need to comply with 300.14 IMO there is no termination the the EGC,therefore it falls under the exemption

Woah! Easy there fella. I think you broke your comma key

I guarantee you it's not broke,,,,,,,,,,,,

I'm with him^^

Thanks