Neatness revisited

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wireguy8169

Senior Member
Location
Southern Maine
Not trying to beat a dead horse with the neatness issue. iwire had stated in a post about the correlation between neatness and code violations.
I had an inspector that once he knew our work would allow the walls to be boarded with out even coming to the site. As nice as this was I am not sure if I entirely agreed with it. I knew we did a proper job and all but wondered if things were missed cause of this. My question is this, those of you inspectors and I am not asking for you to say you do this or not just curious is this is a common accepted practice? They always inspected the service and did the final.
 

Hendrix

Senior Member
Location
New England
Not trying to beat a dead horse with the neatness issue. iwire had stated in a post about the correlation between neatness and code violations.
I had an inspector that once he knew our work would allow the walls to be boarded with out even coming to the site. As nice as this was I am not sure if I entirely agreed with it. I knew we did a proper job and all but wondered if things were missed cause of this. My question is this, those of you inspectors and I am not asking for you to say you do this or not just curious is this is a common accepted practice? They always inspected the service and did the final.
I look at every job that has a permit. Rough, service and finish.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I can count on one hand the number of times I have allowed it. There have been rare occasions when the job consisted of work that is often not even permitted (add receptacles, etc.) and the contractor needs to "cover", that I have allowed it.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Always look at it. Why pay for a permit if no one is going to inspect it? I've been here 20 years as an inspector and I don't even let any of the local guys cover without me seeing it.

What starts to happen is that it makes contractors complacent, "aww it's no problem if we don't do ______, he's not going to look at it any way."
 

eprice

Senior Member
Location
Utah
I agree with what the others have said. Even the best contractors can sometimes miss something. The permit fee was paid and the inspections should be made. It is not only a service to the owner, but service to the contractor as well. If the contractor makes a mistake and something happens, he is liable for his mistake. Another set of eyes may catch the mistake.

Reinspection is where my knowledge of the contractor will make a difference. If I discover something on my inspection that needs to be corrected and I know from past experience that the contractor involved does good work and has integrity, and if the issue involved is simple enough, I may give permission for the work to be covered after the correction has been made without the need to schedule a reinspection. Whereas, with another contractor I may insist on reinspecting the work before cover to make sure the correction was made properly.
 

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
Not trying to beat a dead horse with the neatness issue. iwire had stated in a post about the correlation between neatness and code violations.
I had an inspector that once he knew our work would allow the walls to be boarded with out even coming to the site. As nice as this was I am not sure if I entirely agreed with it. I knew we did a proper job and all but wondered if things were missed cause of this. My question is this, those of you inspectors and I am not asking for you to say you do this or not just curious is this is a common accepted practice? They always inspected the service and did the final.

I want the inspector to show up every time .No one can pitch a perfact game every time, inpectors miss stuff too but its better they show up and take a look if they find somthing good lets fix before the paint dryes.
 

hotwire1955

Senior Member
Location
nj
I don't sign off on anything that I have not looked at. Missing nail plates cables stapled on edge you get a red sticker.I don't take anybody's word that they will take care of it,once an inspector signs off on something you own it!
 

james_mcquade

Senior Member
Although i'm not an inspector,
i would say inspect it beginning to end.

If you let something go without inspecting it, and the house burned,
and then the inspector found a mistake that you passed, couldn't the home owner / insurance company look to you for compensation?

The answer to your question is i have heard of it.
I had an inspector in our county that would inspect everything unless it was done by one person. he would pass it without question. When he was questioned on it, he said that if he did it, it was done to the code or it wasn't done by him.

It may say a lot about the quality of work, but i would still inspect it.

regards,
james
 

wireguy8169

Senior Member
Location
Southern Maine
Lots of good responses, and incase there was any misunderstanding I am not an inspector nor do I think an inspector should do this. I do however know of a pretty good size job that another contractor did in a housing project.

The job entailed removing all the wiremold cutting walls and rewiring, mostly all the same thing lights in hallways, kitchen counter circuits, and rec in wall in the living room. Well the contractor did that he just removed the wire mold cut a trench in the plaster and buried the conductors, splices, some had sheathing some did not. Well, there was a fire (not related to the job) in a unit that was completed and when they were pulling down the plaster to investigate they found this crappy work. Three different contractors had to go back in and redo 180 units, all of which had been signed off on by the inspector.

I am not sure if the contractor or inspector had to foot the bill or both but they both continued to do work long after it happened.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Lots of good responses, and incase there was any misunderstanding I am not an inspector nor do I think an inspector should do this. I do however know of a pretty good size job that another contractor did in a housing project.

The job entailed removing all the wiremold cutting walls and rewiring, mostly all the same thing lights in hallways, kitchen counter circuits, and rec in wall in the living room. Well the contractor did that he just removed the wire mold cut a trench in the plaster and buried the conductors, splices, some had sheathing some did not. Well, there was a fire (not related to the job) in a unit that was completed and when they were pulling down the plaster to investigate they found this crappy work. Three different contractors had to go back in and redo 180 units, all of which had been signed off on by the inspector.

I am not sure if the contractor or inspector had to foot the bill or both but they both continued to do work long after it happened.

If there was a law against being stupid, there would be a whole lot more people in jail.:grin:
 

construct

Senior Member
Most inspectors know that it is time prohibitive to see every square inch of an installation. To do that, you would almost have to be on site observing all day. I try and look at a sampling in various locations of the structure. If what I am seeing looks good, I move on. If, on the other hand, I am seeing violations, I look at more of the work and in more detail.

Another example of this method is bridge inspectors on state highway projects. They will test 10% of the high-strength bolt connections. If that 10% is good, they move on. (kinda scary when you think about your wife and family driving on those bridges)

I have a good relationship with the regular contractors. I still look at their work, but not with a magnifying glass. There is mutual trust and respect and these are the ones that take a great deal of pride in their work.

That being said; there will never be a perfect world in this industry.;)
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Most inspectors know that it is time prohibitive to see every square inch of an installation. To do that, you would almost have to be on site observing all day. I try and look at a sampling in various locations of the structure. If what I am seeing looks good, I move on. If, on the other hand, I am seeing violations, I look at more of the work and in more detail.

Another example of this method is bridge inspectors on state highway projects. They will test 10% of the high-strength bolt connections. If that 10% is good, they move on. (kinda scary when you think about your wife and family driving on those bridges)

I have a good relationship with the regular contractors. I still look at their work, but not with a magnifying glass. There is mutual trust and respect and these are the ones that take a great deal of pride in their work.

That being said; there will never be a perfect world in this industry.;)

Seeing where you're from, maybe you could get Ray Stevens to write a song about inspectors.:grin: Jim Stafford already did called "wildwood weed".:D
 

construct

Senior Member
Seeing where you're from, maybe you could get Ray Stevens to write a song about inspectors.:grin: Jim Stafford already did called "wildwood weed".:D

Too funny!!:grin: I would imagine if Ray Stevens went through the inspection process with certain types of inspectors, he would probably write a song.:cool:
 

RichB

Senior Member
Location
Tacoma, Wa
Occupation
Electrician/Electrical Inspector
I agree with construct-- I will look at the job starting in detail if it all looks good as I go I start to move on--however if I am finding violations and especially the same ones over and over--then I look at the whole job,,,,very closely,,, or just write it up on my punch list as "General throughout the Project",, make them go find them all and on the reinspect I'll look at some of the same ones again and then on to others that I did NOT inspect the first time. That being said--there are some contractors out there that get microscoped from the very start and some others that don't.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I don't sign off on anything that I have not looked at. Missing nail plates cables stapled on edge you get a red sticker.I don't take anybody's word that they will take care of it,once an inspector signs off on something you own it!

Taking their word that they will take care of something is no different than assuming they will not change something after you leave and create a new violation. If you absolutely do not trust them you need to watch them perform all of their work and then watch the drywallers cover it up to make sure nothing happens before it is covered, the other alternative is to inspect it and pass or fail it and then tell them it is ok to cover it once it passes.

It is rediculous for an inspector to think he needs to see absolutely everything. If that is necessary, again he may as well be there while it is being installed in case he sees something wrong. That type of policy would create a lot of inspector job openings, and provide another reason to add significantly to the cost of the project.

Why don't surgeons need to have someone else inspect their work before they are done? There are professionals in all trades and practices and there are hackers in them all also. We don't have to like it but we need to accept that.

Most inspectors know that it is time prohibitive to see every square inch of an installation. To do that, you would almost have to be on site observing all day. I try and look at a sampling in various locations of the structure. If what I am seeing looks good, I move on. If, on the other hand, I am seeing violations, I look at more of the work and in more detail.

Another example of this method is bridge inspectors on state highway projects. They will test 10% of the high-strength bolt connections. If that 10% is good, they move on. (kinda scary when you think about your wife and family driving on those bridges)

I have a good relationship with the regular contractors. I still look at their work, but not with a magnifying glass. There is mutual trust and respect and these are the ones that take a great deal of pride in their work.

That being said; there will never be a perfect world in this industry.;)


Your approach seems fair to me.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
I asked the question on another thread about how many code sections it takes to inspect a new circuit installed in a bedroom and I only got a couple of answers. The answer I came up with is 96. Even when we say we are looking at everything, we are obviously not, it would be impossible.

When I say I look at everything, that simply means that you don't get to cover up anything just because you're sure you did it right. Call me for underground, I look down, stick my tape in the trench to see if you're deep enough, check for a UL listing on the pipe and I'm on my way. You instaslled to small of a conduit or not enough, you're the one going to dig it up and replace it since it is your responsibility and you need to take some for your job.
 

hotwire1955

Senior Member
Location
nj
Taking their word that they will take care of something is no different than assuming they will not change something after you leave and create a new violation. If you absolutely do not trust them you need to watch them perform all of their work and then watch the drywallers cover it up to make sure nothing happens before it is covered, the other alternative is to inspect it and pass or fail it and then tell them it is ok to cover it once it passes.

It is rediculous for an inspector to think he needs to see absolutely everything. If that is necessary, again he may as well be there while it is being installed in case he sees something wrong. That type of policy would create a lot of inspector job openings, and provide another reason to add significantly to the cost of the project.

Why don't surgeons need to have someone else inspect their work before they are done? There are professionals in all trades and practices and there are hackers in them all also. We don't have to like it but we need to accept that.




Your approach seems fair to me.

The op was in reference to an inspector not even coming out to look at the job because he knows the kind of work being done. Like I said I look at everything maybe not with a magnifying glass but I look at everything after it is installed . " The alternative is to inspect it and pass it or fail it" that is what I do when I look at it! When a law is passed to inspect a surgeons work thats what will be done.
 
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