Those pesky little clamps on 2-4 gang boxes...

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c2500

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I started a job today in the next county. I went and paid for my business license like a good little contractor and then proceeded to the job site. This is a job where the previous workers were fired. I go in, having bid the job on an entire rip out of the previous work. I figured I could at least salvage the boxes. Then I discovered those clamps that are provided in the 2-4 gang boxes can be removed, assuming you staple the NM within 4-8 inches of the box. I could have sworn the eight inch rule only applied to single gang boxes with no built in clamp???

I do not know who the previous contractor(s) were, but I can only assume that since this was a permited job that the AHJ allows this practice. Oh, the over driven staples are why I am ripping everything out. Those lovely plastic staples should be code to prevent the licensed morons from damaging NM. Guess this is what you get in a one inspector town.

$600+ of wire wasted.

c2500
 
c2500 said:
I started a job today in the next county. I went and paid for my business license like a good little contractor and then proceeded to the job site.
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You finally got licensed? :cool:

c2500 said:
.......I could have sworn the eight inch rule only applied to single gang boxes with no built in clamp???
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Read 334.40. ;)

c2500 said:
......... Oh, the over driven staples are why I am ripping everything out. Those lovely plastic staples should be code to prevent the licensed morons from damaging NM. Guess this is what you get in a one inspector town.
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So let's make every thing that has ever been installed incorrectly illegal, shall we? Then what will the professionals install? :confused:

c2500 said:
$600+ of wire wasted.
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Didn't come out of your pocket, so what do you care? ;)
 
I am licensed where I work...State license and business license in the city (3 state licenses to be exact). I had to have another business license because I was in another town. You know we have to support the locals where we work.

Don't follow the 334.40 reference..unless there is sarcasm behind it. (I am tired...so I could easily miss it)

I think plain staples should not be allowed...I as well as you have seen them over driven to many times. But you know what they say about opinions. If I remember right, they are not allowed in Mass.? Maybe they should teach a class on how not to overdrive plain steel staples?

Scrap yard...here I come! Lets see those copper prices rise!!!!

c2500
 
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I have never damaged a cable hitting a staple.















Missing the staple, yes, but never hitting it. :cool:
 
Countless times I've seen overdriven staples. Seen a few so tight they scored the wire. Bend the cable a few times & it breaks right on that spot.
 
I like Larry dont think I have ever damaged a wire with a staple and don't think getting rid of metal staples is the answer. Then again when I first hammered in a staple I was instructed (and I recall thinking what does this guy think I am an idiot) not to hammer them down just secure the wire, I realized after seeing somethings like you said why the journeyman I was working with emphasized that point.

I am not sure how many you have but I always removed the extra clamps of metal boxes I did not use or ones I ripped out and always had several dozen in a jug on my van, maybe you could just put them in if you have them?
 
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c2500 said:
I am licensed where I work...State license and business license in the city (3 state licenses to be exact). I had to have another business license because I was in another town. You know we have to support the locals where we work.

Don't follow the 334.40 reference..unless there is sarcasm behind it. (I am tired...so I could easily miss it)

I think plain staples should not be allowed...I as well as you have seen them over driven to many times. But you know what they say about opinions. If I remember right, they are not allowed in Mass.? Maybe they should teach a class on how not to overdrive plain steel staples?

Scrap yard...here I come! Lets see those copper prices rise!!!!

c2500
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Mass Electricial code 334.30 Where Staples are used for cable sizes smaller than three #8 AWG,they shall be of the insulated type.
 
c2500 said:
Don't follow the 334.40 reference..unless there is sarcasm behind it. (I am tired...so I could easily miss it)
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Haha, my book is out in the truck so I went to the nfpa website version. After clicking the table of contents to get to Chapter 3, I clicked "next page" no less than 2 dozen times to get to 334.40 only to have it refer me back to 314.3 which I passed along the way.
 
Today, I was thinking about making a short video on driving staples. :cool:



My three 14/2's fit easily under a staple leaving about 3/4". You line them up under the staple and tap it in with your hammer, stopping before it's tight. The wires should move under the staple.

It aint rocket science :cool:. I think it's one of the first things I learned. I thought, hmmmmm....if you drive the staple too tight, you will get a nice little heating element drivin into the wood. Probably not a good idea.
 
220/221 said:
Today, I was thinking about making a short video on driving staples. :cool:



My three 14/2's fit easily under a staple leaving about 3/4". You line them up under the staple and tap it in with your hammer, stopping before it's tight. The wires should move under the staple.

It aint rocket science :cool:. I think it's one of the first things I learned. I thought, hmmmmm....if you drive the staple too tight, you will get a nice little heating element drivin into the wood. Probably not a good idea.
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I agree! I've never had a problem driving metal staples too tight. User error or ignorance should not dictate the codes. Using that logic, wirenuts should be illegal because I've seen plenty of them improperly installed!
 
In fact, plastic coated staples could also be driven too tightly. I staple just enough to hold in place, wire should be able to wiggle a little. If if wants to sag through it, I drive another staple a few inches away and/or bend a small loop near the staple. I seldom use plastic coated unless I'm stapling a ground wire to the outside wall or something similar. Have had customers request them, I obliged. Someone gave me a bag of the little plastic NM straps with nails. They were OK sometimes, but the small nails would bend easily if used on old framing.

I saw 1 installation of outdoor lights with UF cable where a guy secured the cable with sheetrock nails, dead center through the cable. Don't know if the ground survived the attack, but the lights still worked. I've seen nails of all sizes driven next to cable and bent over it. Have to admit, some were done neatly w/out pinching the cable, at least some effort was made. I've seen poultry or fence wire staples used, sometimes binding against the cable, sometimes not. Also see it sometimes not stapled at all; just lying on the ground from point A to B, rises from ground to J box or up the wall, etc. Guess it's well "grounded".
 
c2500 said:
I think plain staples should not be allowed...I as well as you have seen them over driven to many times. But you know what they say about opinions. ?

Scrap yard...here I come! Lets see those copper prices rise!!!!

c2500
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I have never had a problem with plain staples I have the ones with plastic and they are ok, I have seen many guys hammering the staples in like they were hammering a railroad spike thats why they get to tight IMHO....but hey scrap is king now adays:grin:
 
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