Square foot cost for Churches

[Jodonnell]

Looking for a little help. I am not one to deal with square foot cost but this one I am forced to. I have been asked to provide a budget number for a complete renovation of a church that was built in 1906. They church has been vacant for about 10 years and every thing electrical has been removed. It is going to be a complete renovation with a new electrical installation from the service to the mechanical system. The square foot of the building is 19,136. Can any of you recommend a square foot cost for a publication that provides these.

Thanks for the help

 

[480sparky]

How much per tire does a car cost?

No way can you give a ft? price for anything commercial, especially when you don't post any details.

 

[Jodonnell]

That is why I am asking if there are any publications that give square foot cost. If I were to reply to my customer that I can not provide a square foot number since nothing was know we would say thanks for the help, hang up the phone. He would call another contractor. I would lose a customer and another contractor would have a new customer.

 

[Buck Parrish]

A renovation that big should be bid on by electrical plans (stamped from an engineer)

The main reason I say this is other wise the bidding may be way off the charts from one bid to the other.

Thie's more then one way to skin a cat.

They may not know if you done a good job or not. But they'll know if you cleaned up after your selfs.

 

[Buck Parrish]

That is why I am asking if there are any publications that give square foot cost. If I were to reply to my customer that I can not provide a square foot number since nothing was know we would say thanks for the help, hang up the phone. He would call another contractor. I would lose a customer and another contractor would have a new customer.

Okay , you will need to know the load for heat and AC before you can figure a service.
So ask the customer if one of your HVAC friends can bid that portion of it. Since you will need that any way.
You need to ask for a meeting. Not a phone call.

 

[480sparky]

That is why I am asking if there are any publications that give square foot cost. If I were to reply to my customer that I can not provide a square foot number since nothing was know we would say thanks for the help, hang up the phone. He would call another contractor. I would lose a customer and another contractor would have a new customer.

Anyone asking for a square foot price needs to go back to the 60s. Is this the type of customer you really want?

 

[Jodonnell]

Everything starts with square foot pricing in the beginning. A church is trying to buy this existing church and wants to be given a budget number as to what they are looking for to renovate the church. No one is going to spend $25,000.00+ in drawings to see if there budget fits the cost of the renovation. There is not one person who is providing a budget that is putting anything to it more then just a square foot budget number.

 

[ceb58]

That is why I am asking if there are any publications that give square foot cost. If I were to reply to my customer that I can not provide a square foot number since nothing was know we would say thanks for the help, hang up the phone. He would call another contractor. I would lose a customer and another contractor would have a new customer.

If he dose get another contractor to give him a price over the phone with out looking at any plans and/or knowing what is what..... some one is getting screwed.
Looking back at the last church I did it worked out to be around $7.80 sq ft. That included the lighting package. But it was new construction and only 5000 sq ft.
Have them give you plans to do a take off with then break it down by the ft.

 

[480sparky]

Everything starts with square foot pricing in the beginning. A church is trying to buy this existing church and wants to be given a budget number as to what they are looking for to renovate the church. No one is going to spend $25,000.00+ in drawings to see if there budget fits the cost of the renovation. There is not one person who is providing a budget that is putting anything to it more then just a square foot budget number.

What kind of lighting are they using? How tall are the ceilings? Are the pews going to be removed as well, or do you have to work around them? What is the schedule for completion? Are there any classrooms? Fire Alarm system? Intercom? Phone? Data? Internet? Security? Master clock? Is there a kitchen? Will it need a fire suppression system? Lot lighting? Exterior lights? Dimming system? Sound system? LCD projector? Electrified projector screen?

And I'm just getting warmed up.

 

[flyboy]

It's very simple to figure out. Do a take-off on a complete re-wire. Figure out what the total expences (cost) to do the job. Figure it a little high if you don't want to spend too much time on a complete take-off


Design/build time for the project
Material (include any shipping and tax)
Labor (total unburdened man hours)
Application & Inspection Fees
Misc expences such as rental for tools & sub-contractors

Add the above to get your total job cost. Calculate your total breakeven overhead per day and multiply that number by the total number of days you'll spend on the job. Add the total job cost number to the total overhead breakeven number. Then add your desired profit (should be no less than 20% IMHO). There's your number.

Divide the total square footage of the church by the price you come up with an there is your number per square foot.

 

[ceb58]

Everything starts with square foot pricing in the beginning. A church is trying to buy this existing church and wants to be given a budget number as to what they are looking for to renovate the church. No one is going to spend $25,000.00+ in drawings to see if there budget fits the cost of the renovation. There is not one person who is providing a budget that is putting anything to it more then just a square foot budget number.

Ask for a walk through. See what they would like to have. If you come up with some arbitrary number that is a lot less than what the real work would be then you are going to have big problems.

What kind of lighting are they using? How tall are the ceilings? Are the pews going to be removed as well, or do you have to work around them? What is the schedule for completion? Are there any classrooms? Fire Alarm system? Intercom? Phone? Data? Internet? Security? Master clock? Is there a kitchen? Will it need a fire suppression system? Lot lighting? Exterior lights? Dimming system? Sound system? LCD projector? Electrified projector screen?

And I'm just getting warmed up.

Your making me tired

It's very simple to figure out. Do a take-off on a complete re-wire. Figure out what the total expences (cost) to do the job.

Not that simple. With out drawings that state what is needed and wanted you are shooting in the dark. My take off would be different than yours. I may add things you wouldn't. You may add things I wouldn't. With out a set of drawings no one would be on the same page. The OP has stated they are not spending money on drawings and if they give a price that comes in higher on a real take off with plans than some price pulled out of thin air then they will start throwing up the lower price.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Flyboy has a good ideal. And I agree with ceb and 480.
The problem with Fly's ideal thier is to much guessing.
How ever, he's right you can get a very rough estimate if you knew some details.
So simply go thier ask them what they want.
A lot of chrches have cooking equipment, daycares, citys have ordinances for "Meeting Places" public facilites. Such as generators, fire alarm, daycares for kids etc...
Just write in your estimate no parking lot lights, fire alarm, generators, etc... ( Although the parking lot lights may be the easiest to figure)

I would tell them . Now I am guessing here $65,000 if they have a kitchen.
And if the cielings are high.
Lets see what others can guess.

Here is a church I went to look at that had to be renovated. I was afraid to go in. But I took this video through the window. You can see how unlevel the floor is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBJBJaliM-I

 

[Buck Parrish]

Ask for a walk through. See what they would like to have. If you come up with some arbitrary number that is a lot less than what the real work would be then you are going to have big problems.



Your making me tired



Not that simple. With out drawings that state what is needed and wanted you are shooting in the dark. My take off would be different than yours. I may add things you wouldn't. You may add things I wouldn't. With out a set of drawings no one would be on the same page. The OP has stated they are not spending money on drawings and if they give a price that comes in higher on a real take off with plans than some price pulled out of thin air then they will start throwing up the lower price.

This is the main thing. As stated in my first post.
And this is very common even in residential.
Some one will wire a house toatally different then me or you...

The customer ussually won't know until breakers start tripping...

 

[cdslotz]

Churches these days can run $15 to $25/ft.
Audio/visual and theatrical conduit rough in and cable systems can run $6/ft. And that doesn't include theatrical lighting or equipment.
For budget purposes I would suggest they carry around $17/ft excluding AV/TL

 

[stevenje]

No one is going to spend $25,000.00+ in drawings to see if there budget fits the cost of the renovation.

Maybe not. But they need to show you something on paper to put a price to.
I have yet bid a project of this size without at least a (rough) first draft print from somebody. If they are not willing to spend a little money for the first draft prints, I'm not so sure that I would want to be involved with the project.

 

[fridaymean]

Figure $20/ft....qualify, qualify, qualify. Do not word it as a proposal or offer a proposal based on the budget. Only present a proposal when you have drawings and specs to base a proposal on.

A little friendly help can go a long way.....you can always say "no" in the end....

 

[growler]

No one is going to spend $25,000.00+ in drawings to see if there budget fits the cost of the renovation.

On the other hand if they can't afford to spend some money up-front then they probably can't afford the renovation.

On a job like this they will need an engineering survey to see just what condition the structure is in and how much they will have to do.

Electrical may not be the big problem on a building built in 1906 and left vacant for 10 years. They shoud be checking the structure first to see if that is sound enough to save ( cost effective ).

 

[satcom]

Everything starts with square foot pricing in the beginning. A church is trying to buy this existing church and wants to be given a budget number as to what they are looking for to renovate the church. No one is going to spend $25,000.00+ in drawings to see if there budget fits the cost of the renovation. There is not one person who is providing a budget that is putting anything to it more then just a square foot budget number.

No everything starts with a plan, and an engineer look see, then a budget can worked out, the only square foot price will come at the end of the project when all the costs are in.

 

[ed downey]

Satcom, I disagree. Most buildings start with a budget and a general square footage. This is used to get financing and figure if it is a viable project.

Once it is determined to be a viable project then a few more details are put together into a narrative form and budgeted at that point (mostly by square footage), then the Schematic Design, Design Development & Construction Documents. All of these things are put together with varying degrees of information that is priced with a combination of solid information and square foot basis to fill in the gaps.

As was said before you do need some guidance (or at least a scope document) on what you have included.

We have worked on churches from $8/SF to $37/SF for electrical and the biggest difference is the Historical Lighting Package.

-Ed

 

[satcom]

Satcom, I disagree. Most buildings start with a budget and a general square footage. This is used to get financing and figure if it is a viable project.

Once it is determined to be a viable project then a few more details are put together into a narrative form and budgeted at that point (mostly by square footage), then the Schematic Design, Design Development & Construction Documents. All of these things are put together with varying degrees of information that is priced with a combination of solid information and square foot basis to fill in the gaps.

As was said before you do need some guidance (or at least a scope document) on what you have included.

We have worked on churches from $8/SF to $37/SF for electrical and the biggest difference is the Historical Lighting Package.

-Ed

We want an approved set of plans before we spend any time on pricing a project like a church, at that stage they have a serious investment in the project, after design you may have a square ft figure to put a picture together.