How much to upgrade?

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tonype

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Looked at a home earlier today - contractor bought to fix and flip. All receptacles were replaced; there was some new wiring, though alot of the original is still present. Ca. 1970's main panel still in service. General questions:

1. Are tamper resistant receptacles required (none of the new are)?
2. Since all receptalces in bedrooms were replaced, should AFCI have been provided?

I do not think that GC received "finals" yet from the AHJ.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
tonype said:
All receptacles were replaced;

1. Are tamper resistant receptacles required (none of the new are)?
Click to expand...

IMO yes and this will be made crystal clear in the 2011 NEC

2. Since all receptalces in bedrooms were replaced, should AFCI have been provided?
Click to expand...

IMO no as the branch circuits where existing and it is the branch circuits that must be AFCI protected.
 
Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Are we required to do more than replace them or bring up to code ? I think if you replace a worn out receptacle with a new one all you did was a repair. As far as adding new wire i think that might call for arc faults.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Jim W in Tampa said:
Are we required to do more than replace them or bring up to code ? I think if you replace a worn out receptacle with a new one all you did was a repair.
Click to expand...

You are entitled to your view but it is not the view of the CMP, this will be clarified in the 2011 NEC for those that can't wrap their head around it.:)
 
E

emahler

Senior Member
the short answer to both questions is "no"....

the long answer is "because NJ is still on the 2005 NEC for the rehab code, and this falls under rehab..."
 
T

tonype

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
emahler said:
the long answer is "because NJ is still on the 2005 NEC for the rehab code, and this falls under rehab..."
Click to expand...

I have the NJ Uniform Construction Code - I cannot find the code reference. The only thing I see under "Alterations", "Repairs" and "Renovations" sections of the Rehab Code is the following (all the same)

"Replacement of electrical receptacles shall comply with the requirements contained in Section 406.3(D) of the electrical subcode".

The sub-code reference in early sections of the UCC is the 2008. I cannot find the reference to 2005.
 
T

tonype

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Forget last post - just found an issue of the NJ Construction Code Communicator that explains this. It seems that 2008 can be used, though 2005 is also ok. 2008 will not become effective for rehab until the State gets around to changing the Rehab code section.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
NJ is currently under the 2008 NEC unless the job was filed a long time ago when the 2005 was still applicable.
 
goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
tonype said:
For rehab (as of 2/10) in NJ 2005 is used.


http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/ccc_art/articles/rehab_2008_nec_correction_article.pdf
Click to expand...
This is correct. Currently in NJ you can gut a house down to the studs, rewire it completely and upgrade the electrical service and you would not be required to use TR receptacles or AFCI breakers. However, if there are any additions to the house, once you go beyond the foorprint of the house (either in ground area or elevation) you will be required to use TR's and AFCI's in those areas.
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
iwire said:
IMO yes and this will be made crystal clear in the 2011 NEC



IMO no as the branch circuits where existing and it is the branch circuits that must be AFCI protected.
Click to expand...

Bob

Is it going to require TR on replacements?

I think using the TRs are a good idea but I consider this maintenance not an alteration.

If it is maintenance then you are allowed to use the code under which it was first installed.

If you call it an alteration, I do not think it is, then TRs would be required.
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
goldstar said:
This is correct. Currently in NJ you can gut a house down to the studs, rewire it completely and upgrade the electrical service and you would not be required to use TR receptacles or AFCI breakers. However, if there are any additions to the house, once you go beyond the foorprint of the house (either in ground area or elevation) you will be required to use TR's and AFCI's in those areas.
Click to expand...

Do you mean NO AFCI's?

Or did you mean not in the new locations required in the 2008?
 
goldstar

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
jxofaltrds said:
Do you mean NO AFCI's?

Or did you mean not in the new locations required in the 2008?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you're asking Mike or how to answer you. Basically, under the Rehab Code in NJ, which is currently using the 2005 NEC, if you gut a house down to the studs, then rewire it as it stands you will not be required to use TR receptacles or AFCI breakers. However, if you put a 1-room addition onto the back of the house or put a dormer on the existing structure, thereby altering the highest elevation of the house, you will be required to use TR's and AFCI's.

I can't tell you whether other states have adoped this procedure.
 
jxofaltrds

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
goldstar said:
I'm not sure what you're asking Mike or how to answer you. Basically, under the Rehab Code in NJ, which is currently using the 2005 NEC, if you gut a house down to the studs, then rewire it as it stands you will not be required to use TR receptacles or AFCI breakers. However, if you put a 1-room addition onto the back of the house or put a dormer on the existing structure, thereby altering the highest elevation of the house, you will be required to use TR's and AFCI's.

I can't tell you whether other states have adoped this procedure.
Click to expand...

So no ACFIs for the bedrooms? I do not have the 2005 in front of me but doesn't it require AFCIs?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top