PushMatic Electi-center. Please help...

[AdaptnConquer]

This is gonna be long so bear with me please. I need help with changing this panel. It is a 100 amp Bulldog Pushmatic. But it starts at the switch box next to the meter pan. It looks ok but I never had a fused switch box next to the meter pan.

Now from there it goes through the wall to the Pushmatic in the garage. Its a 100 amp with side by side breakers 14 in all.

30/30
50/50This one has been tripping when oven is on.
50/50
20/20
20/20
20/20
15/15
Now for the inside. Basically almost everything in the house is supposedly is run from this panel for a 1700sq ft. house. Almost seems impossible, electric stove, water heater, lights, fans, T.V.'s.
Now when the stove is on and most burners or the oven is on just that one breaker will trip. When I push it back in it still shows off. Now for the other problems. Some of the neutrals appear to be melting.

Then the last 50 amp breakers have a piggyback that goes from the buss to the breaker along with the wires leading off somewhere. So to my understanding basically they are bypassing the breaker or are they running 220 off a 120 breaker?

Then there is another issue. If you look to the right of this photo, you'll see some wires piggy backing off the lugs going to another breaker box, a 125 amp box.

And unfortunately that box feeds another box that was added on for the "Sun Room". I haven't been able to see that box till tomm when they move some stuff for me to get to it. I know that this breaker box is running out of the 125 amp box on a 60 amp Double Pole.

Sorry it was so long. I just wanted you to know what I know so far. I know there are several things I can do. I just want to hear from some of you experts out there and make sure I do the right thing. Please help! I'm suppose to start working on this tomorrow.

 

[pete m.]

Sounds to me as though it's a complete re-do (as far as the service is concerned). I would start with a load calc to determine the correct size service for this structure and then determine, to the best of your ability, if there are any hazards with the existing wiring.

Pete

 

[AdaptnConquer]

So, my Paw-Paw said that the service wires coming in were a 2 phase 240V. I'm an Industrial Electrician and don't know anything about residential but i do know the basics so I'm getting kinda lost on the Pushmatic situation. I am going to get an Amp-meter so I know what size panel to change the 100 amp pushmatic to. There house is around 2400sqft. 600sqft is the sun room that is running off the 125 amp panel box that piggy backs off the pushmatic on a 60 amp breaker.

Do you think that I could just upgrade the pushmatic to a 200 amp and re-route the wires from the 125 amp box into the new 200 amp panel. Also should I get a panel with a main instead of relying on the giant fused switchbox outside.

 

[AdaptnConquer]

Anybody? Help please!

 

[480sparky]

I've never seen 2-phase services. Heard of 'em, but never seen one in the wild.

How is an ammeter going to tell you what size your service should be?

 

[AdaptnConquer]

It's not really. Its just to tell me how much some of the big appliances are pulling.
All I know is that I have 2 hots and a neutral going into that pushmatic, so thats what i'm working with. Should I put a 200 amp instead of the pushmatic and the other panel. They are right next to each other so it wouldn't be a problem. For a 2400spft house it sounds right. What do ya'll think?

 

[480sparky]

Take a gander through Article 220.... it's the only way to fly.

 

[chris kennedy]

What size conduit and wire(service conductors) is the meter fed with? As other have mentioned you need to do a load calc. See 220.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

You have several problems. First off you will need 4 conductors (seperate ground and neutral) after the first means of disconnect and for now that is the outside fused switch. Without a load calculation we can not say what size is needed, it is likely a 200 amp will be ok but that is gues work. You also now need a 200 amp meter can and service wires to handle it. Not sure where your at but likely will need a permit. If this is your dads house he might be able to pull owner permit but that might require a test. Your probably in for a lot more work than your thinking to bring it up to code

 

[acrwc10]

It's not really. Its just to tell me how much some of the big appliances are pulling. All I know is that I have 2 hots and a neutral going into that pushmatic, so thats what i'm working with. Should I put a 200 amp instead of the pushmatic and the other panel. They are right next to each other so it wouldn't be a problem. For a 2400spft house it sounds right. What do ya'll think?

1) All the appliances have "name plate ratings" (the silver UL tag on most) you need to get the "load" from that. Then you need to look at the minimum size conductor for the load.

2) "All I know is that I have 2 hots and a neutral going into that pushmatic" you need to get some help with this if you want to make it safe and correct.

3) Really look at what I put in #2

 

[AdaptnConquer]

I read everyone's comments and have decided not to tackle this project. I am an Electrician, but most of my work has taken place in Industrial settings. Y'all helped me to realize that this was beyond my means, and I could end up jeopardizing my Grandparents safety. I am not license, insured, or Bonded so I know a guy that I use to work for that owns his own electrical company. Hopefully he won't charge that much for the work. I don't know exactly how much this type of work would normally cost. Can anyone give me a gross estimate of changing the panel? Just labor, not material.
Thanks to everyone who helped me.
-Justin D

 

[chris kennedy]

Can anyone give me a gross estimate of changing the panel? Just labor, not material.

Here that would be around $800.

 

[acrwc10]

Here that would be around $800.

How much around here? :grin:

Seriously, I am glad to hear that you are going to get help on this.

 

[hurk27]

I read everyone's comments and have decided not to tackle this project. I am an Electrician, but most of my work has taken place in Industrial settings. Y'all helped me to realize that this was beyond my means, and I could end up jeopardizing my Grandparents safety. I am not license, insured, or Bonded so I know a guy that I use to work for that owns his own electrical company. Hopefully he won't charge that much for the work. I don't know exactly how much this type of work would normally cost. Can anyone give me a gross estimate of changing the panel? Just labor, not material.
Thanks to everyone who helped me.
-Justin D

Welcome to the forum

I'm glade you know when to say when, not knocking you, its just I have worked both sides of the fence, as both industrial and residential, and I have known many industrial electricians, who did a lot of damage when trying to do wiring in their own homes or homes of friends, in one case, on guy thought it was ok to switch neutrals, like done in some older control circuits, what he didn't know was the neutral he was switching was a multi-wire branch circuit, burned up about $12,000 worth of electronic in a friends office, I was lucky, I started as a helper in residential first, then landed a job in a fiber plant later on, and realized there was so much difference in the way things are done, then after good industrial jobs got shipped over seas, went back doing residential and commercial work, with some freelancing in control work, but in the advent of PLC not much of that comes my way,

but stick around and read, lots of info here.

 

[hurk27]

also make sure the electrician you get, knows about multi-wire circuits, and that they must land on different legs in the panel, (most likely the reason your seeing burnt neutrals)