Wind Turbine Voltages?

[tedge]

Anybody know what 1-1.5 MW wind turbines produce for a voltage?

I live next door to a small, community owned ski area, and there is a movement to place 4 or 5 large scale wind turbines on the ridgeline. They are selling it to the uninformed by saying that they will run a cable down the mountain to power the ski area.

I'm looking for some concrete answers to refute this. In theory, I guess they could set up a transformer system to step down whatever voltages are produced, but without some sort of massive storage capacity, it's too unreliable to run a ski area right?

Admittedly, I am fairly ignorant of the technology, but It's my assumption that these turbines will tie directly into the grid. You can talk about offsetting the power usage of the ski area by producing some with the turbines, but direct connection to the facility doesn't seem practical to me.

 

[zog]

Usually they generate 13.8kV and is transformered from there to whatever is needed for the local grid interface.

Now if I were you I would have some major concerns. When they put these up you have all sorts of issues, mechanical failures are catostraphic and dangerous, they can toss ice off the blades for nearly a mile. You have the astestics and dropping property values of course and what suprises most people is the costs to operate. kWH costs for a wind turbine is one of the highest you will find, about double of more common methods, and the local utility (or worse yet co-op) has to pay for this, so what you will see as a local resident is an inclearse in your kWH rate.

There is some good info here. http://www.windaction.org/news/c48/

 

[dereckbc]

tege is it is grid tied the unreliability issue is taken care of as the grid acts as a virtual battery.

However as Zog points out the cost of generation is tremendous. Only way for RE applications to remain in business is by government subsidies (your tax money) and higher utility rates by forcing utilities to pay a much higher cost for electricity. It is a double whamy which drives up the cost of everything you touch or do. It really hurts manufacturing because those cost have to be passed onto the consumer. A lot of those manufacturing jobs just leave and go elsewhere where energy cost are much less expensive and their money and jobs are welcomed like China, India, and Mexico.

 

[Besoeker]

Usually they generate 13.8kV and is transformered from there to whatever is needed for the local grid interface.

The GE 1.5 MW units (1.5sle and 1.5xle) operate at 690V. Of course it can be transformed to whatever voltage is required.

Now if I were you I would have some major concerns. When they put these up you have all sorts of issues, mechanical failures are catostraphic and dangerous, they can toss ice off the blades for nearly a mile.

Ice for a mile seems a bit far fetched - no pun intended.
The tip speed of a 1.5sle is about the same as that of a good first serve in tennis and what a good fast bowler in cricket can achieve.
I don't think anyone could throw a cricket ball close to a mile.
Apocryphal comes to mind.

 

[ohmhead]

So what is the voltage ?

If there that expensive to operate why are we using this i dont see the advantage of a wind power if its cost is more to operate and they sound like there junk after reading that site !

It must be because there clean to operate so we see that only !but whats the voltage normally standard i see two different voltages on these post .

 

[cadpoint]

What is the average MPH of wind speed at your location, this will determine what these unpeller's will generate! ? :roll:

The propellar design has been been increased to make work of the whisper of the wind... it was 14 MPH in 81' ; I'm sure the efficiency has increased!

 

[dkarst]

So what is the voltage ?


It must be because there clean to operate so we see that only !but whats the voltage normally standard i see two different voltages on these post .

Most of the specs I have seen are ~ 690V coming down the tower to a nearby transformer that is typically 690V / 34.5kV or that neighborhood.

 

[tedge]

Yeah, I've gotten a crash course in wind turbine problems over the past couple of weeks. Our new house, which should be finished in a month or so, would be less than 1/2 mile from at least one turbine site if it comes to fruition. Wish they would have told me that a year ago.

In mounting a fight against these things, it has come to light that the people pushing it are telling townsfolk that it will power the ski area. The inference they are trying to make is that they will DIRECTLY power the facility. I see this as a bald face lie, and I intend to stand up at the next town meeting and say as much. However, I just wanted to check to see if there is any technology available that would allow them to do this (assuming they want power all the time, not just when the wind blows) before I make a fool of myself in front of the whole town.

Probably what the pro-wind folks will say is that the power produced will offset the power used. But even this seems like a stretch, and is NOT the same thing as directly powering it in my mind.

 

[LarryFine]

I would push for the locality to insist on third-party engineering analysis to prove the "movement's" claims.

Nobody on either 'side' who has a real interest in the project should object to that.

 

[Speedskater]

However, I just wanted to check to see if there is any technology available that would allow them to do this (assuming they want power all the time, not just when the wind blows) before I make a fool of myself in front of the whole town.

Probably what the pro-wind folks will say is that the power produced will offset the power used. But even this seems like a stretch, and is NOT the same thing as directly powering it in my mind.

No economical way of storing power. What they will do is sell the excess power when available to the power company and then buy it back as needed. It comes down to design issues as to how much power will be produced.

 

[brian john]

Having been involved in two different eminent domain cases both involving my house one for a land fill one for power lines I can tell you EVERYONE lies. Do not trust the local officials, the company pushing the issue, the ones against the issue.

 

[danickstr]

Any good lawyer will tell you that statistics can be manipulated to favor either side. That is why so many court cases are just a matter of who can afford the better lawyer.

 

[brian john]

Any good lawyer will tell you that statistics can be manipulated to favor either side. That is why so many court cases are just a matter of who can afford the better lawyer.

Or the better expert witness, they often will side with whoever offers the biggest paycheck

 

[ohmhead]

Most of the specs I have seen are ~ 690V coming down the tower to a nearby transformer that is typically 690V / 34.5kV or that neighborhood.

Ok solid answer !

 

[zog]

Ice for a mile seems a bit far fetched - no pun intended.
The tip speed of a 1.5sle is about the same as that of a good first serve in tennis and what a good fast bowler in cricket can achieve.
I don't think anyone could throw a cricket ball close to a mile.
Apocryphal comes to mind.

Dude, they can chuck pumpkins nearly a miles, broke the 5000' barrier this year.

 

[zog]

I would push for the locality to insist on third-party engineering analysis to prove the "movement's" claims.

Nobody on either 'side' who has a real interest in the project should object to that.

I don't think you can get any better advice than this.

 

[dkarst]

In mounting a fight against these things, it has come to light that the people pushing it are telling townsfolk that it will power the ski area. The inference they are trying to make is that they will DIRECTLY power the facility. I see this as a bald face lie, and I intend to stand up at the next town meeting and say as much. However, I just wanted to check to see if there is any technology available that would allow them to do this (assuming they want power all the time, not just when the wind blows) before I make a fool of myself in front of the whole town.

Probably what the pro-wind folks will say is that the power produced will offset the power used. But even this seems like a stretch, and is NOT the same thing as directly powering it in my mind.

I think your reasoning regarding "offset" is correct and therein of course lies the rub. Many of these sources are environmentally attractive, but when it comes down to needing base load, not many of them cut it.

With some reasonable assumtions, four 1.5MW machines would supply enough annually for ~ 2500 homes (18 E6 kw-hrs/yr) which may even exceed your annual ski area usage. But what about on Thursday night skiing when the crowd arrives and you can't run the lifts or light the runs so you send everyone home because there's no wind... I don't think so.

 

[Besoeker]

Dude, they can chuck pumpkins nearly a miles, broke the 5000' barrier this year.

Who can?
Got a link?

 

[Besoeker]

Dude, they can chuck pumpkins nearly a miles, broke the 5000' barrier this year.

A link for you:
http://www.punkinchunkin.com/records.htm
Compressed air machine.
I don't know what the muzzle velocity is but almost certainly a good deal greater than a fast bowler can deliver a ball and, following my earlier comparison, a good deal greater than the tip speed of a 1.5 MW wind turbine.
I'm still highly dubious about the claim of ice being chucked nearly a mile.

 

[Besoeker]

Anybody know what 1-1.5 MW wind turbines produce for a voltage?

I live next door to a small, community owned ski area, and there is a movement to place 4 or 5 large scale wind turbines on the ridgeline. They are selling it to the uninformed by saying that they will run a cable down the mountain to power the ski area.

I'm looking for some concrete answers to refute this. In theory, I guess they could set up a transformer system to step down whatever voltages are produced, but without some sort of massive storage capacity, it's too unreliable to run a ski area right?

Admittedly, I am fairly ignorant of the technology, but It's my assumption that these turbines will tie directly into the grid. You can talk about offsetting the power usage of the ski area by producing some with the turbines, but direct connection to the facility doesn't seem practical to me.

You're right. Without a grid connection, you would need storage - on a grand scale. And, to date, we don't have technology that makes this remotely practical.
In my opinion, that's one of the major stumbling blocks for most renewables including wind.

We have an on demand expectation and renewables and an on availability resource. To match the two usually requires a grid connection and spinning reserve. That is conventional power generation running lightly loaded and that's inefficient. There are a few technical papers I've read suggesting that beyond about 20% variable input (say from wind turbines) the cost and emissions from the lightly loaded spinning reserve wipes out any savings from the variable renewable source.