Today, I had an electrical inspector make me remove the bonding jumper at the hot water tank from the gas line. He looked at me like I was crazy for doing that. First time I've worked in this particular city, but I have inspections for panel upgrades very often in many other cities and never had a problem. In fact, last time I pulled a permit in Cleveland Heights, the electrical inspector gave me a paper notifying me that I must bond any "Pro-flex" flexible gas line conduit (it's yellow) on both sides of the connectors. Seems like quite a conflict of interpretation. Any Thoughts?
Gas line bonding.
- Thread starter aptman3
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Split Bolt
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern Virginia
Could you give us at least a clue about where you work? I think there's a Cleveland Heights neighborhood in just about every large city in the USA! Other electricians that live in that area may be able to shed some light for you. Here in the City of Alexandria, Virginia, I have had the same thing happen. I have also had certain inspectors here require it! Go figure! I just do what the inspector wants when it comes to this matter!
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Corrugated stainless tubing gas lines have their own instructions for bonding and there is nothing in the NEC specifically addressing the practices for that type of product.
Other metallic gas piping normally does not require a bonding conductor to be attached directly to the pipe via a clamp because it is usually bonded by the equipment grounding conductor of the branch circuit of the equipment connected to the gas line (like a furnace).
See 250.104(B).
I see no reason for inspector to require you to remove the bonding jumper you mentioned, it likely was not required to be there (other than maybe CSST) but was not hurting anything either.
Other metallic gas piping normally does not require a bonding conductor to be attached directly to the pipe via a clamp because it is usually bonded by the equipment grounding conductor of the branch circuit of the equipment connected to the gas line (like a furnace).
See 250.104(B).
I see no reason for inspector to require you to remove the bonding jumper you mentioned, it likely was not required to be there (other than maybe CSST) but was not hurting anything either.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Show him 250.104(B). In Ohio the ESI must show you the code violation by number.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
First off what size jumper was it and where did it go to? Is ths gas pipe one of the CSST pipes- flexible gas lines usually black or yellow?
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Here the gas company doesn't want you to bond to their pipe, so we don't, but many inspectors will tell you that the gas line is bonded when it's attached to the furnace, since the furnace if attached to the ground by way of the cord connection.
I've also heard of inspectors that make you jump over to the hot water pipe, when they should be well aware that it is already bonded through the mixing valve.
I've also heard of inspectors that make you jump over to the hot water pipe, when they should be well aware that it is already bonded through the mixing valve.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
And what if you have no mixing valve? Read the commentary in 250.104(A)(1).
- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
Some where in the dwelling you will have a mixing valve, even if you're running plastic pipe, but then, of course, you wouldn't need to bond it.
You always will bond the cold water, I was talking about having to also bond the hot water side. If you have hot and cold, you have a mixing valve somewhere.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Do you look for this?
Electro-Plumbing Product Certification
Electrical plumbing products connected to or used with plumbing in commercial or household locations. Examples of equipment covered by these requirements are irrigation equipment, sprinkler controls, water controls located in kitchens and bathrooms, electric faucets, and toilet flushing systems.
? ANSI/UL 1951, CAN /CSA C22.2 No. 14-M91, CAN /CSA C22.2 No. 68-92 (Plumbing accessories connected to or used with plumbing in commercial locations or residential occupancies, including irrigation equipment, sprinkler controls, water controls located in kitchens and bathrooms, electric faucets, toilet-flushing systems, lawn sprinklers, plumbing controls, hydromassage chairs and pedicure spas)
http://www.iapmort.org/Pages/ElectroPlumbingProductCertification.aspx
Show me an approve 'fixture' that is allowed to bond the cold water piping system and the hot water piping system. The commentary tells you that they are seperate systems.
Probably they same people who staple NM to OSB. LOL.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Didn't this silly argument go a gazillion pages last year? :roll:
Show me ANY plumbing fitting that is "listed" for bonding.
Show me ANY plumbing fitting that is "listed" for bonding.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Yes it did. And no it is not as silly as NM on OSB.
A fitting is part of the piping system. The fitting makes the piping system continious. Fixtures, water tanks, softners, filters, etc. are not part of the 'piping' system.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Which has what to do with this?
I'm not getting sucked in to this again. :roll:
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Which has what to do with this?
I'm not getting sucked in to this again. :roll:
Where is your sense of adventure?
I guess since you do not install or inspect plumbing you probably have not seen how often and easily this 'so called bond' can be lost or may not be there at all.
You are using a fixture for a bonding method which has to comply with 250.64(A), (B), and (E).
Plus these point SHALL be accessible. Most shower valves are concealed.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I am not going to take either side on whether a shower valve is an acceptable bond between the hot and cold water piping. I will say that most of them have a trim that only requires removing two screws and then you will have access to the entire valve assembly - not enough to do much to it but it is accessible.
donselectric
Senior Member
- Location
- nh
i just did a gas fire place outlet and was called back by the propane co to bond at the regulator as they wouldn't call for an inspection without it. i took a #6
from a tee in the cellar just after regulator to the nearest cold water pipe and haven't heard anything since...they say its being enforced by plumbing insp..
from a tee in the cellar just after regulator to the nearest cold water pipe and haven't heard anything since...they say its being enforced by plumbing insp..
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Your right it doesn't count.
water is not conductive enough to act as a bond. but the metal bodies of most mixing valve which are all metal, and sweated to the copper pipes should not be a problem, but we ain't going there as this thread is about gas pipes.
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