Tie breaker between 2 utility services

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Gategator37

Senior Member
I am currently looking at a set of plans that has (2) utility service entrance switchgear. These USES feed several secondary unit substations. Between the 2 USES there is a tie breaker that is shown as NC on both ends. Is this correct for a scenario like this? Or does it depend on the scenario?
 

paul

Senior Member
Location
Snohomish, WA
If their season is over and the records are tied you should go as follows:

1. Head to Head record
2. Points against
3. Points for
If they're still tied after that, flip a coin.

:D

As for the breakers, I can't see why you would want them normally closed. YOu now have two separately fused services that are paralleled, if I understand this correct. Granted substations are not my specialty.

Send in an RFI to the engineer to see if this was what he/she meant.
 

SG-1

Senior Member
A closed TIE Breaker between two services seems like an accident waiting to happen, in the form of a through-fault or both incoming lines feeding a fault in the gear.

I say you are looking at a mistake.

Most TIEs like this that I have seen are only allowed to remain CLOSED a few seconds. Many times the POCO has the only key to the permissive switch that allows the TIE to close & parallel the lines.
 

lakee911

Senior Member
Location
Columbus, OH
Maybe there is a NO breaker somewhere? I have seen two feeds to gear with the tie closed and one feed open. Another scenario is that it is on or part of a loop, no? At any rate, it sounds like RFI time...
 

RETRAINDAILY

Senior Member
Location
PHX, arizona
The only Costumer owned ones I have seen have keys.
2-keys 3-breakers.
Breakers could not be turned on, without a key.

I have piped utility ones but Know nothing about them.
 

jdsmith

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
A nomally closed tie breaker at a medium voltage main substation is normal in some situations. Some considerations when contemplating a NC tie are:

- How many NO main-tie-main substations are cascaded downstream of the NC substation? Draw a timing diagram of a 480V main-tie-main transfer scheme that is fed from a 5 kV main-tie-main transfer scheme and you will see what I mean - the undervoltage relay pickup delays start to stack up. If you employ an auto-restart scheme on your motors this is important.

- Do you have large motors that will require both mains and the tie to be closed to start the motor? If so it is better to run with the tie closed than institute some sort of short term scheme where the motor start button closes the tie for 30 seconds to let the motor start.

- What is the available fault current in the open tie and closed tie cases? Do you want to buy breakers capable of interrupting the higher closed tie fault current, or will that fault current help with system stability, motor starting, etc?

- With a NC tie a breaker failure protection scheme may be required depending on available fault currents and the system configuration.

- If you want to have multiple closed tie substations then more complicated breaker failure, directional relaying, or line protection schemes may be required to clear large magnitude faults quickly enough to maintain system stability.

In summary, closed tie substations require more power system design and protection knowledge than most consulting engineers or facility maintenance/operations personnel have. For large plants that have the knowledge and sophisticated engineering staff a closed tie system can make sense, but for the average industrial plant it probably doesn't.
 
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