Nfpa and osha

[puckman]

Since nfpa is not a federal law as osha is , what rules are part of 70e that are in osha.

for instance clearing time and max. scc available of a breaker in a swichgear.
interacting with a breaker.
removing covers from panels to install cb or conduit.

Can a company used the task tables to do work without doing a electrical hazard analysis of the service and switchgear?

 

[LEO2854]

Since nfpa is not a federal law as osha is , what rules are part of 70e that are in osha.

for instance clearing time and max. scc available of a breaker in a swichgear.
interacting with a breaker.
removing covers from panels to install cb or conduit.

Can a company used the task tables to do work without doing a electrical hazard analysis of the service and switchgear?

The entire 70E was written by the NFPA for OSHA.

 

[LEO2854]

Read page 70E-1 of the NFPA 70E it wil explane what you are looking for

 

[infinity]

The entire 70E was written by the NFPA for OSHA.

Are you saying that any jurisdiction that falls under the purview of OSHA automatically falls under 70E?

 

[LEO2854]

Are you saying that any jurisdiction that falls under the purview of OSHA automatically falls under 70E?

No i dont beleave so , but the OP was looking for a point of reference of the origin of the of the NFPA 70E .

 

[puckman]

What i am told is that 70 e is not law and a lot of companies tend not to follow 70e because of that reason. Osha is what they tend to follow and i am aware of the general duty clause.

Are there rules in Osha that states things as interacting with breakers you need ppe and a be a qualified worker ? Clearing times and max. scc available.

Are there flash hazards analysis required by Osha ? How about approach boundaries ?

 

[infinity]

Are you saying that any jurisdiction that falls under the purview of OSHA automatically falls under 70E?

No i don't believe so , but the OP was looking for a point of reference of the origin of the of the NFPA 70E .

I don't believe so either. I have yet to see someone mention 70E compliance on any project that I've been invloved with.

 

[iwire]

I don't believe so either. I have yet to see someone mention 70E compliance on any project that I've been invloved with.

For real?

We hear about it constantly and as the service director I get emails from customer safety people reminding us to comply.

 

[jim dungar]

OSHA requires you to provide a work place, for your employees, which is safe from electrical hazards.
It is your company's responsibility to comply with OSHA, NFPA70E and IEEE 1584 simply give you some guidance.

OSHA does not have the time or resources to decide the requirements for each industry, so they rely on consensus standards (things that the majority of find reasonable). It becomes hard, but not impossible, to defend your company's safety policy if you totally ignore the consensus standards.

NFPA70E is a consensus standard for electrical safe work practices. It is not a "how to manual".

IEEE1584 is a set of formulas used to determine the amount of incident energy contained in an arcing fault, based on the available short circuit current.

 

[billsnuff]

beware the general duty responsibility

"Each employer shall furnish to each of his (sic) employees employment and a
place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or
are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees."

if there is a concensus standard available, the employer has a responsibility to provide a safe work environment...............70E is such a standard

 

[infinity]

For real?

We hear about it constantly and as the service director I get emails from customer safety people reminding us to comply.

Not once. I've brought this up on several occasions and almost everyone that I've spoken to have never heard of it. Seems like GC's and their safety consultants are ignorant to 70E standards as well. We will have no problem working on a live switchboard without any PPE as long as you have on your hardhat. I'm not kidding. :roll:

 

[zog]

Not once. I've brought this up on several occasions and almost everyone that I've spoken to have never heard of it. Seems like GC's and their safety consultants are ignorant to 70E standards as well. We will have no problem working on a live switchboard without any PPE as long as you have on your hardhat. I'm not kidding. :roll:

Yet you are well aware of the requirements, and the dangers. How are you going to deal with the aftermath if (or hen) someone at your company gets injured, or worse?

 

[infinity]

Yet you are well aware of the requirements, and the dangers. How are you going to deal with the aftermath if (or hen) someone at your company gets injured, or worse?

I make decisions that only affect me. I wouldn't ask someone else to circumvent the rules but I see it happen everyday. Since I'm no longer in a position of responsibility for others they're free to do what they want. I've refused to work on an energized 480 volt transfer switch. They just got someone else to do the job which is fine by me. I refused because it was unnecessary to work on it while energized but no one wanted to bother with the procedure for a shutdown. Someone else wanted to be the hero which is fine with me.

 

[StephenSDH]

Can a company used the task tables to do work without doing a electrical hazard analysis of the service and switchgear?

Yes and no. The task tables are to be used when arc flash calculations have not been done. If a study has not been done you can use the task tables, but you still need to do some napkin calculations to insure the scc available is within the limitation of the table. You can look at an upstream transformer KVA and impedance to do the calc. If the equipment you are working on does not fit into a category then you can't use the tasks tables and would need a study to determine the PPE.

 

[ramsy]

I've refused to work on an energized 480 volt transfer switch. They just got someone else to do the job..

When you eventually get fired for refusing, as most people do, your burden off proof for unlawful termination will be insurmountably. OSHA will lose your paperwork until you go away.

If OSHA had proper warnings, it would read as follows:

WARNING:
1) Following OSHA Standards may result in immediate termination.
2) Such terminations are enforceable when unrelated causes are fabricated.
3) Industries that provide Safe livelihoods are those not described by OSHA.
4) If you don't like being fired, killed, or a patriot for God & Country, then you not a good soldier or employee.

 

[iwire]

When you eventually get fired for refusing, as most people do, your burden off proof for unlawful termination will be insurmountably. OSHA will lose your paperwork until you go away.

If OSHA had proper warnings, it would read as follows:

WARNING:
1) Following OSHA Standards may result in immediate termination.
2) Such terminations are enforceable when unrelated causes are fabricated.
3) Industries that provide Safe livelihoods are those not described by OSHA.
4) If you don't like being fired, killed, or a patriot for God & Country, then you not a good soldier or employee.

You are a dinosaur living in the past.

 

[pfalcon]

My boss once asked what would happen if we didn't follow the safety specs.

My answer: Unless and until someone gets hurt or killed - nothing. But consider what can happen if and when someone does get hurt or killed.

1) Will you be able to keep looking yourself in the mirror without crying?
2) Will OSHA (IOSHA) descend on you for X yrs in prison and $Xk in fines?
3) Will your company toss you in the gutter as the scapegoat?
4) Did you really think your wife would stay with you through all that?

Odds may be small but the penalty is large.

 

[ramsy]

You are a dinosaur living in the past.

My first use of PPE or LOTO, without risk of termination, was as an owner operator. As such, I'm a dinosaur that survives when history repeats itself.

How many dinosaurs over 40 still do field work in your shop?

 

[puckman]

I am amazed the way managers give these young guys to go troubleshoot or work on 480 volt motors or such . With a days training and a movie they became electrical workers, No exsposure to electrical work before that. Also the course was given by the safety department from a scribt. No EE or electrical guy.

I become a pia with management on this subject, so now I have to shut up.

 

[zog]

I make decisions that only affect me. I wouldn't ask someone else to circumvent the rules but I see it happen everyday. Since I'm no longer in a position of responsibility for others they're free to do what they want. I've refused to work on an energized 480 volt transfer switch. They just got someone else to do the job which is fine by me. I refused because it was unnecessary to work on it while energized but no one wanted to bother with the procedure for a shutdown. Someone else wanted to be the hero which is fine with me.

So when that hero is in a burn unit are going to visit him and face his family or just crawl back in your hole?