What about wall areas under a ceiling? Under cabinets? Under sinks? Under shelves? Under coathangers? Under curtain rods?
O is the operative letter here.... opinion. I'm simply asking where you get your opinion's foundation?
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GFCI for refrigerator
- Thread starter JDB3
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What about wall areas under a ceiling? Under cabinets? Under sinks? Under shelves? Under coathangers? Under curtain rods?
O is the operative letter here.... opinion. I'm simply asking where you get your opinion's foundation?
It is not silent on the issue. It is covered quite specifically in 210.52(A)(2)(1).
That section does not state anything about 'wall sections under countertops'. Nor is there an exception for a space between cabinets. There is 2' or more of wall space, measured along the floor, and unbroken by fireplaces, doors, and similar openings.
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Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
You justify it the same as you do any wall space. If it is there it counts regardless of use or not.
With a door I call it a cabinet
with out door I call it a shelf
with nothing I call it open space
if you put a board there I would call it a shelf but it is not there.
cabinets do not require a back to be a cabinet
If by calling it recycling you mean trash can I would NOT call it a break in wall space.
remove doors and i have shelfs
The space is real and must be called something so you tell me what it is. It is not a shelf,not an appliance and not a cabinet.
Now if I was the electrician and you said not required I would be happy.
But if i was inspector and wanted it then we have issues. Make it into anything to qualify as a break in space and I would sign it off.
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jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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- ESI, PI, RBO
If you have a cabinet or cabinets installed there is no wall to be measured along the floor.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
Dang sure looks like a wall to me. But if this is an island and has no back in this space and just cabinet sides I would be fine with it
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
None is blinder than he who refuses to see.
tallgirl
Senior Member
- Location
- Glendale, WI
- Occupation
- Controls Systems firmware engineer
210.52 (B) (2) Exception 2:
(2) No Other Outlets The two or more small-appliance
branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no other
outlets.
Exception No. 1: A receptacle installed solely for the electrical
supply to and support of an electric clock in any of the
rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1).
Exception No. 2: Receptacles installed to provide power for
supplemental equipment and lighting on gas-fired ranges,
ovens, or counter-mounted cooking units.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Must be another book like mine out there.
Jim W in Tampa
Senior Member
- Location
- Tampa Florida
make that 3
tallgirl
Senior Member
- Location
- Glendale, WI
- Occupation
- Controls Systems firmware engineer
It was a LARGE run of misprints :grin:
Now, what is this thing about a wall?!? If I understand correctly, someone is claiming that a receptacle UNDER a counter is required if the countertop doesn't have a cabinet underneath it?
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
That is correct. I say no to under the countertop.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
You mean yours prohibits you from installing a SABC receptacle behind an electric range too?!?
Hooray, we might get on the same page yet.
But if there's no countertop?
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
NO it does not. Are you saying that I am not allowed to provide it for possible future use?
Ever seen a rough-in for both? Gas and electric.
Wall space. Assuming no opening, door, etc.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Absolutely not! It says it right there in black and white!
As long as a "prewire" is just a blank, you can put whatever you want back there.
So, it IS wall space if there's no countertop, but it ISN'T wall space if there's a c'top?
Again, where in the Code does that come from?
- Location
- Massachusetts
So .... how about them Pats?
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