Do I need a ground conductor in EMT?

[conmgt]

I just came across some prints that say "(4) 3/0 MCM +(1) 6 Cu GRD in 2" C." for subpanel feeds.

If I'm using 2" EMT and unpainted boxes and panels with wrenchtight connections, am I missing something or is the 6 GRD in there in case I use PVC/LiquidTight etc.?

 

[bluesmoke...oops]

Some engineers like the ground cable in the conduits regardless of what you run it in.

 

[conmgt]

Do I have to follow his/her lead on that or forgo the GRD?

 

[bluesmoke...oops]

I would talk to the engineer about it and check the specs.

 

[roger3829]

Do I have to follow his/her lead on that or forgo the GRD?

Remember the code is a minimum standard. Code does not require a grounding conductor but it could very well be spec'd by an eng. And if it's spec'd.......then you must do it.

 

[jumper]

I would talk to the engineer about it and check the specs.

Yep. In some places the engineers specs are enforced by the inspector. Local laws vary.

 

[bluesmoke...oops]

Well I'm one of those engineers who will put a cable in there.

 

[raider1]

Yep. In some places the engineers specs are enforced by the inspector. Local laws vary.

Yep, Utah is one of those places where the inspector is required to inspect to the approved engineers plans and specifications.

Chris

 

[jumper]

Yep, Utah is one of those places where the inspector is required to inspect to the approved engineers plans and specifications.

Chris

Thanx. I always get flak on this until you chime in.

 

[jumper]

Well I'm one of those engineers who will put a cable in there.

And I am one of those people who will put it in if you spec it.

 

[bluesmoke...oops]

And I am one of those people who will put it in if you spec it.

:grin:

It's never a problem on a design-bid-build job. It's when it's a design-build job and arguments ensue about nitpicking costs of things. It's amazing what some people will try to tell you some things cost to build.

 

[jumper]

:grin:

It's never a problem on a design-bid-build job. It's when it's a design-build job and arguments ensue about nitpicking costs of things. It's amazing what some people will try to tell you some things cost to build.

I personally have no problem using EMT as an EGC, but approved specs have to be followed IMO, unless the engineer allows an alteration from a RFI request.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If it is in the specs then the egc should be installed.

 

[bluesmoke...oops]

I meant that on a standard design-bid-build, you would give a total bid knowing you have to run the EGC in every conduit up front.

On a design-build, "value engineering" comes into play cause I am working for the contractor and they are interested in doing it to min code to meet exactly what the sow says, so they can change order for anything else.

I've also had the unfortunate joy of dealing with some contractors that see a possible issue with the plans but purposefully wait until the issue is installed so they can gouge on a change order something that was a 5 min fix on the plans before the job started.

 

[peter d]

Yep, Utah is one of those places where the inspector is required to inspect to the approved engineers plans and specifications.

Chris

Wow. That's terrible.

Here inspectors check for code compliance and nothing else. That's all they are mandated to do is enforce the law of the land which is the NEC.

 

[bluesmoke...oops]

Wow. That's terrible.

Only if they catch you taking shortcuts :grin:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

As a contractor who bid the job to specs and didn't get the job, I would be very angry if I found out the other EC didn't follow specs. In fact, I would report it.

 

[peter d]

Only if they catch you taking shortcuts :grin:

My point is that it shouldn't be the inspectors job to enforce owner's job specs. Obviously in some states it is. Around here, that is the job of the engineer or owner's representative to ensure that the specs are being followed.

 

[raider1]

Wow. That's terrible.

Here inspectors check for code compliance and nothing else. That's all they are mandated to do is enforce the law of the land which is the NEC.

It is part of the inspector licensing statute for the state of Utah. I can be found guilty of unprofessional conduct for not inspecting to the approved engineers design.

Here is a quote from the statute on what constitutes unprofessional conduct for a building inspector.

(10) a building inspector's approval of work which materially varies from approved
documents that have been stamped by an architect, professional engineer, or
both unless authorized by the licensed architect, professional engineer or
both;

Keep in mind that Utah uses combination inspectors so any licensed inspector in Utah is either a limited inspector which can only inspect for the certificates they hold or a combination inspector that holds all the certificates.

Chris

 

[bluesmoke...oops]

I've heard about a couple jobs in my area where that happened. Guy who won undercut everyone else (it was shaky cause he pretty much did it after the bid closed).

Guy didn't follow specs, someone else called the engineer to say that they should check it out, and guy had to pull everything down (after drywall was up and ceiling was in) and redo it. Also had to cut some of the slab for using pvc when rigid was specified.