firestop

[readydave8]

Failed an inspection on house rewire today, inspector says I need firestop caulk all holes in plates around the cables.

I asked him was it in NEC or building code, he said building code.

This is a simple wood frame brick veneer maybe 50 years old.

I told him I'd caulk all the holes I could reach, where the roof pitch comes down above outside wall we pulled new romex through with existing(unstapled) cable or used diversibit.

I know local codes vary, but in general :

1. Do I need to caulk all these holes? (I'm going to anyway).

2. Do I need to use firestop caulk in this kind of construction?

He also failed me for a hallway that has several doors opening into it, he thought it needed a light switch at every door. He was wrong and was real nice about it when I told him so.

Also wanted existing breakers changed to arc faults, told him I wouldn't on the circuits I hadn't touched (just rewired 3 br 2 ba this time, had rewired the rest of the house a few years ago, before Georgia adopted 08 NEC).

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

I suggest you change the attitude with them. They have the right to inforce the codes both building and nec along with any local ones. The fire caulking is good idea. While i dont really support arc faults they are required. They can and should make you fire calk ALL the holes.
If this was not part of your bid it should have been. You will not like the price of fire caulk.

 

[jwelectric]

I make it very clear with every inspector I have ever dealt with. It is simply a case of show me where I am in violation using written text of sign off on my work.

Don?t know about your state but here in good old NC a building violation in not reason enough to hold an electrical inspection.

One thing all can rest assured of is; Here is one of them good old boys that just ain?t gonna buy that fire junk for no single family dwelling.

 

[jumper]

I make it very clear with every inspector I have ever dealt with. It is simply a case of show me where I am in violation using written text of sign off on my work.

Don’t know about your state but here in good old NC a building violation in not reason enough to hold an electrical inspection.

One thing all can rest assured of is; Here is one of them good old boys that just ain’t gonna buy that fire junk for no single family dwelling.

Me neither. Requested is not required.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

NEC article 300.21 deals with penetration in fire assemblies but if this is a single family home you probably don't have any except for the garage. I don't know which building code you use but if it is the IRC there is draft stopping requirements where you can use ordinary foam or even chaulk to seal holes between floors and ceilings.

 

[TCN]

NEC article 300.21 deals with penetration in fire assemblies but if this is a single family home you probably don't have any except for the garage. I don't know which building code you use but if it is the IRC there is draft stopping requirements where you can use ordinary foam or even chaulk to seal holes between floors and ceilings.

Agreed: Draft stopping is a building code and energy code requirement. Firestopping is likely not a SFR issue as Napier stated.
BTW: The orange stuff advertised as 'listed' with flames all over the can to indicate firestopping is listed, but not for firestopping, only draft stopping. Grab a piece sometime and light it. It burns fast and toxic.

 

[raider1]

NEC article 300.21 deals with penetration in fire assemblies but if this is a single family home you probably don't have any except for the garage. I don't know which building code you use but if it is the IRC there is draft stopping requirements where you can use ordinary foam or even chaulk to seal holes between floors and ceilings.

Agreed: Draft stopping is a building code and energy code requirement. Firestopping is likely not a SFR issue as Napier stated.
BTW: The orange stuff advertised as 'listed' with flames all over the can to indicate firestopping is listed, but not for firestopping, only draft stopping. Grab a piece sometime and light it. It burns fast and toxic.

I agree as well.

Caulking the top and bottom plate holes is called draft stopping and is used to seal the holes to prevent a fire in that cavity from "Drafting" or drawing air through the holes to feed the fire.

When draft stopping it is not required to use a fire rated caulk, you can use expanding foam or standard caulk.

Fire rated caulk is only require when sealing a penetration through a fire rated wall, ceiling or floor.

Chris

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Usually here if fire caulking required it will not be done by the electrician as it be cheaper to hire it out. Do not get any on you it is flat nasty stuff

 

[raider1]

Usually here if fire caulking required it will not be done by the electrician as it be cheaper to hire it out. Do not get any on you it is flat nasty stuff

I agree, in my area the insulation contractor is the one who does the draftstopping.

Much cheaper to hire a laborer to do this then a licensed electrician.

Chris

 

[eprice]

1. Do I need to caulk all these holes? (I'm going to anyway).

2. Do I need to use firestop caulk in this kind of construction?

1. Building codes (IRC, IBC, UBC) do require fire blocking between concealed vertical spaces (wall cavities) and concealed horizontal spaces (floor spaces) or attics.

2. The requirement is for fire blocking, not firestop. There is a difference. The construction you are talking about is not fire-rated construction. There is no requirement that firestop caulk be used. I received an (over the phone - not official) opinion from ICC on this in the past. Any caulk that will prevent the passage of flame through the hole is adequate. Silicone caulk would work fine and is a lot cheaper than fire caulk. After all, what is the fire rating of the wood through which you are boring the hole?

 

[readydave8]

1. Building codes (IRC, IBC, UBC) do require fire blocking between concealed vertical spaces (wall cavities) and concealed horizontal spaces (floor spaces) or attics.

2. The requirement is for fire blocking, not firestop. There is a difference. The construction you are talking about is not fire-rated construction. There is no requirement that firestop caulk be used. I received an (over the phone - not official) opinion from ICC on this in the past. Any caulk that will prevent the passage of flame through the hole is adequate. Silicone caulk would work fine and is a lot cheaper than fire caulk. After all, what is the fire rating of the wood through which you are boring the hole?

This is the answer I was looking for. thanks.

 

[readydave8]

I suggest you change the attitude with them. They have the right to inforce the codes both building and nec along with any local ones. The fire caulking is good idea. While i dont really support arc faults they are required. They can and should make you fire calk ALL the holes.
If this was not part of your bid it should have been. You will not like the price of fire caulk.

Jim you may be right about my attitude I'll try to watch it.

Why do I need to change to arc fault breakers on circuits I haven't touched?

 

[readydave8]

I make it very clear with every inspector I have ever dealt with. It is simply a case of show me where I am in violation using written text of sign off on my work.

Don’t know about your state but here in good old NC a building violation in not reason enough to hold an electrical inspection.

One thing all can rest assured of is; Here is one of them good old boys that just ain’t gonna buy that fire junk for no single family dwelling.

?W?hich good old boy? I'll buy that fire junk if I need to but don't understand why it would be important to use in spruce pine or fir framing lumber. I don't know enough to argue one way or the other but would like to learn. Thank you for any further information.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim you may be right about my attitude I'll try to watch it.

Why do I need to change to arc fault breakers on circuits I haven't touched?

You should not need to if that part was permited and inspected before this job.
Perhaps the inspector is thinking it all is new. Should be easy to talk it over.

 

[readydave8]

You should not need to if that part was permited and inspected before this job.
Perhaps the inspector is thinking it all is new. Should be easy to talk it over.

Ok i'm with you now.

You're right that part was previously permited and inspected, inspector originally though it was all new, he was hired to replace the previous inspector who had left, talked it over with him & now we seem to be on same page.

I'm going over on the 21st to caulk the holes and meet with the inspector.

Thanks for your interest and your advice.

 

[jwelectric]

Ok i'm with you now.

You're right that part was previously permited and inspected, inspector originally though it was all new, he was hired to replace the previous inspector who had left, talked it over with him & now we seem to be on same page.

I'm going over on the 21st to caulk the holes and meet with the inspector.

Thanks for your interest and your advice.

I would go talk but the holes belong to the builder not the electrician as far as inspection goes so I wouldn't have a word to say about that

 

[jxofaltrds]

How do we address 300.21?

 

[readydave8]

How do we address 300.21?

Typical wood-framed single family dwelling. Are the stud walls "fire-resistant-rated"?

 

[readydave8]

I would go talk but the holes belong to the builder not the electrician as far as inspection goes so I wouldn't have a word to say about that

Builder finished and got paid probably 50 years ago. Most of the holes were drilled by the original electrician, we changed out the wiring.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Typical wood-framed single family dwelling. Are the stud walls "fire-resistant-rated"?

No but the walls are:
http://www.awc.org/Publications/dca/dca3/DCA3.pdf

R502.13 Fireblocking required.

Fireblocking shall be provided in wood-frame floor construction and floor-ceiling assemblies in accordance with Section R602.8.
R602.8 Fireblocking required.

Fireblocking shall be provided to cut off all concealed draft openings (both vertical and horizontal) and to form an effective fire barrier between stories, and between a top story and the roof space. Fireblocking shall be provided in wood-frame construction in the following locations.
1. In concealed spaces of stud walls and partitions, including furred spaces and parallel rows of studs or staggered studs; as follows:
1.1. Vertically at the ceiling and floor levels.
1.2. Horizontally at intervals not exceeding 10 feet (3048 mm).
2. At all interconnections between concealed vertical and horizontal spaces such as occur at soffits, drop ceilings and cove ceilings.
3. In concealed spaces between stair stringers at the top and bottom of the run. Enclosed spaces under stairs shall comply with Section R311.2.2.
4. At openings around vents, pipes, and ducts at ceiling and floor level, with an approved material to resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion.
5. For the fireblocking of chimneys and fireplaces, see Section R1001.16.
6. Fireblocking of cornices of a two-family dwelling is required at the line of dwelling unit separation.



FIREBLOCKING. Building materials installed to resist the free passage of flame to other areas of the building through concealed spaces.