Metal Boxes in Residential???

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The only house I have ever wired was my own and it has metal boxes, but it does not have EMT. While about half the population of Illinois is covered by codes that require EMT for dwelling units, the area I am in does permit NM for residential.
That being said the house I grew up in was done in rigid conduit...and it was built by a DIY.
 
I don't do new construction, which has worked out great these past two years. I use conduit and metal boxes in residential service. One thing I love about metal boxes is creating a double deep box by combining a 4X4X1.5" bracket box with a 4X4X1.5" extension box with the plaster ring on top of those.
 
In my book,

Good= NM and plastic boxes
Better= NM and metal boxes
Best= AC or MC and metal boxes

If you are a decent salesman and do a lot of customs or McMansions the upgrade should not be hard to sell. If you do spec forget it.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
In my book,

Good= NM and plastic boxes
Better= NM and metal boxes
Best= AC or MC and metal boxes

If you are a decent salesman and do a lot of customs or McMansions the upgrade should not be hard to sell. If you do spec forget it.

-Hal
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What about EMT and metal boxes?
 
What about EMT and metal boxes?

I would love to do a whole house in EMT. If you could get them to pay for it go for it. Big selling point is the ease of wiring changes. I believe we had some pictures posted here several years ago by an EC in the Chicago area of a new construction rough he did. Pretty awsome.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
In my book,

Good= NM and plastic boxes
Better= NM and metal boxes
Best= AC or MC and metal boxes

If you are a decent salesman and do a lot of customs or McMansions the upgrade should not be hard to sell. If you do spec forget it.

-Hal
Click to expand...

Is the title of the book "wasting money on perceived value upgrades, a tale of nonsense" ? :D
 
I couldn't agree more against it being a local code requirement, pretty silly. But if it's the customer's choice for whatever reason and they will foot the bill I wouldn't argue.

-Hal
 
GUNNING said:
You could go the Mr Hainey route and suggest for a slight increase in cost Metal boxes would most assuredly be used. . .. ... A job that has this kind of quality components should have metal boxes because it would enhance the craftsmanship needed to display the high quality materials of such a project....


and for just a few dollars more this all could be yours. What would it take to get you to upgrade to those sturdy metal boxes. Nothing lasts longer nor holds up better in high traffic areas like steel. They can come in metric sizes to accommodated European styling and added value of accommodating hard wired switches and receptacles in Almond the fashion color of the season.
If you consider these special order items maybe you might want to have the fine craftsmanship and professional installation of a piped in system with galvanized Electrical metallic tubing and epoxy coated interior for the smooth insertion of those very special and colorful wires lubricated and glistening with only the finest imported gels.

Pause here and look wistful ...

Just a small price for such a large increase in the expandability of your very personal and private space which you use to start everyday of your very busy lifestyle. Think of the added value of having both metal boxes and piped in wiring with individual wires to satisfy the safe and incredible good taste of such as yourself. This type of install is not for everyone. Please choose wisely. But in my humble opinion this installation is right for a person of your impeccable tastes. How much value do you place on your safety and the safety of your loved ones. Metal boxes, EMT, Special wiring, you deserve nothing less.
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There are so many good arguments in favor of plastic here that I can't add anything. I did want to say that the above quote got me laughing so hard I actually blew coffee out of my recently operated on nose. Thanks Gunning, this actually made my day.
 
hbiss said:
What about EMT and metal boxes?

I would love to do a whole house in EMT. If you could get them to pay for it go for it. Big selling point is the ease of wiring changes. I believe we had some pictures posted here several years ago by an EC in the Chicago area of a new construction rough he did. Pretty awsome.

-Hal
Click to expand...
The use of EMT in the Chicago area is required by local codes. Those code cover about half of the population of Illinois.
 
I agree that plastic is the cost and time effective way to wire a new house, however I spend much of my time on rewiring houses from the 1960s and I love it when I work on a house with metal boxes with FMC. It makes the rewire job so much easier and avoids having to rip up the drywall. When pulling a new groundwire on a two wire run or adding an additional circuit, the metal conduit and metal boxes makes rework a snap.

This is the primary reason I favor metal boxes and FMC. Maybe it doesn't make sense to consider rework, but I think it is worth the added expense.
 
LarryFine said:
I can't find a pic right now, but, I've seen a two-sided nail-on box that's 4.5" deep and takes devices on both sides.
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I have seen these at a Womack location. Womack has them as standard counter item. A good product.
 
drive1968 said:
I agree that plastic is the cost and time effective way to wire a new house, however I spend much of my time on rewiring houses from the 1960s and I love it when I work on a house with metal boxes with FMC. It makes the rewire job so much easier and avoids having to rip up the drywall. When pulling a new groundwire on a two wire run or adding an additional circuit, the metal conduit and metal boxes makes rework a snap.

This is the primary reason I favor metal boxes and FMC. Maybe it doesn't make sense to consider rework, but I think it is worth the added expense.
Click to expand...
I've seen very little of this in houses. I've seen far more of a metal box with BX cable. I've seen lots of FMC in offices, etc. used down the walls.
 
Generally, my only use of metal boxes in houses is for dimmer switches, as I saw on other posts here, they help to heat sink some overly hot dimmers. I sometimes use them to gang up what I can't buy in plastic.

Plastic is cheaper, lighter, easier to nail up, don't have to tape terminal screws, etc. The few customers that have asked me, I've told them plastic has been standard for over 20 years. I agree with most previous comments about better space and grounding as well. I do notice that some of the speedlock or "quickclick" boxes don't securely hold device screws for a sturdy install. Sometimes have to up them to 8-32 screws. The ones without quickclick hold well, but are often a tight go with a screwdriver. Sometimes I even drill a 6-32 tap into them to loosen them up.

I do use metal for anything surface mounted on a porch, utility room, etc. where physical damage is a consideration.

I cant' imagine doing a house in EMT, as the Chicago guys posted. My cousin's apt in Chicago was wired in NM, what I saw in her attic. Older building though, in Irving Park area. Don't know when EMT became code there.
 
Metal VS plastic
copper vs aluminum
up VS down
EMT or EMT and EGC


All are personal preferences and when installed by professionals either offers a safe installation. In my opinion many of the beliefs for the more expensive methods come from, old ways dying hard or what one was taught and all the fairy tales that are attached to these methods. One thing for sure it seems to be a sensitive subject for some folks.


Fact is unless there are local codes prohibiting a particular method, either of the 8 noted are permitted by the NEC.
 
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Pffft...you guys are such hacks. The only thing acceptable in a dwelling unit is PVC coated RMC, malleable iron FS boxes, and XHHW copper conductors. :cool:
 
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