LV landscape luminaires around pool

[fisherelectric]

In the '05 NEC, 411.4(B) says lighting systems operating at 30 volts or less are not permitted "Where installed within 10' of pools, spas, fountains, or similar locations unless permitted by Article 680".
Article 680.22(B)(4) says "Luminaires, lighting outlets, and ceiling suspended fans installed in the area extending between 5' and 10' horizontally from the inside walls of a pool shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter unless installed not less than 5' above maximum water level..."
Would you interpret this to allow LV fixtures between 5' and 10' from the inside of the pool below 5' as long as they were GFI protected?
Thanks

 

[jumper]

No, GFCIs do not protect load side connections of LV transformers, IIRC

 

[fisherelectric]

I believe that could be true. Any idea where I could find a definitive answer to whether or not a GFCI receptacle or breaker provides protection to the 12volt side of a landscape transformer.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I believe that could be true. Any idea where I could find a definitive answer to whether or not a GFCI receptacle or breaker provides protection to the 12volt side of a landscape transformer.

Derek already gave you the difinitive answer. GFCI on the line side does not protect the secondary side of the transformer.

Here is something I found that does not address GFCI directly but it infers what Derek stated.

Quality transformers are made with protection from over load and short circuit situations. This is an important safety feature. The transformer is protected on the line voltage side by the fuses or breakers in the electrical service panel for the building. But the secondary side of the transformer is not connected to that system. It is energized by induction not direct contact so the breaker does not protect it. Quality transformers protect the secondary side by running the low voltage through a breaker or fuse.

 

[brantmacga]

I believe that could be true. Any idea where I could find a definitive answer to whether or not a GFCI receptacle or breaker provides protection to the 12volt side of a landscape transformer.

how could it?

 

[fisherelectric]

I thought maybe it could because I have seen transformers listed for low voltage pool lights and Art 680.23 refers to "isolated winding type with ungrounded ungrounded secondary that has has a grounded metal barrier between the primary and secondary windings" for that application. But I suppose that type transformer is only listed for underwater fixtures and couldn't be used for landscape fixtures.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I thought maybe it could because I have seen transformers listed for low voltage pool lights and Art 680.23 refers to "isolated winding type with ungrounded ungrounded secondary that has has a grounded metal barrier between the primary and secondary windings" for that application. But I suppose that type transformer is only listed for underwater fixtures and couldn't be used for landscape fixtures.

IMO, if the fixture is within the NEC rules for pools then the trany must be suitable for swimming pools.

 

[fisherelectric]

IMO, if the fixture is within the NEC rules for pools then the trany must be suitable for swimming pools.

I don't understand what your saying. I have a customer who had a lot of 12 volt landscape lighting done around their pool. They want me to replace some of it. A lot of the fixtures are closer than 10' to the pool. Are you saying if they had a transformer listed for pool equipment these 12 volt fixtures would be code compliant with 411.4 B? ('05 NEC) That is if the local inspector would approve it.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

In my opinion the low voltage lights would not be in compliance if closer than 10 feet. On the nicer upscale systems right on the steel transformer timer pack it states not to install the lights closer than 10 feet from the pool.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

No, I was thinking LV lights in the pool. IMO< landscape lighting needs to be 10' from the pool. I see them all the time closer but I have not been able to see where that is compliant.

 

[fisherelectric]

Thanks for your input. I couldn't see anyway around it either. Just wanted all the info I could get before I tell this customer their landscape lighting has been done wrong.
Steve