Installing new lights ( flush ceiling mounted and sconce style) with old BX wire

[Mr 3phase]

I am installing several new light fixtures in an old home. The wiring is old BX, and rossetta fixtures (at least that is what I am told they are called), that the wire is fastened to, and the existing fixtures mounted over. My question is two fold:
First, if a new sconce fixture can fit over this 'rosseta', can I leave it there?
Second, If the ceiling light fixture requires connection to wires rated for 90 degree celsius, is there an option to installing the wires in a metal box, fastening it to a joist in the ceiling and installing a new box below it with romex going from the metal box to the plastic box being installed to mount the light to?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This is a recurring question that cannot be answered so easily. It is really an inspectors call. Around here we just install the new fixture as it is better than the old ones.

Not sure rosetta s the right term but do you mean the hickey (threaded stem) in the middle of the box? I usually remove them but it can stay-- I like having more room in the JB.

 

[Mr 3phase]

The 'fastener' is round, has four holes for the bx to come through and be secure by a set screw. It is held in place by two wood screws. It won't allow for a surface mounted fixture to go over it, so it has to be removed. I am pondering using a pancake box even though the wire fill will be over the limit, as the only other way is labor intensive and time consuming.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The 'fastener' is round, has four holes for the bx to come through and be secure by a set screw. It is held in place by two wood screws. It won't allow for a surface mounted fixture to go over it, so it has to be removed. I am pondering using a pancake box even though the wire fill will be over the limit, as the only other way is labor intensive and time consuming.

What do you mean by fastener. It sounds like you have a round box with bx cable coming in. Aren't there 2 6-32 holes at the corner of the box?

 

[Mr 3phase]

The 'object' is round, about 3 to 4" in diameter. It is about 1/2 thick on the outer diameter, and has an area in the middle for a 'hicky' to screw into. About 1 1/2 " out from the center there are four holes, in a hole pattern about 2" in dia. the holes allow for bx to come through them and a set screw on the outer diameter , located in line with each hole , is used to secure the bx in place. it is common in many houses in the boston area.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The 'object' is round, about 3 to 4" in diameter. It is about 1/2 thick on the outer diameter, and has an area in the middle for a 'hicky' to screw into. About 1 1/2 " out from the center there are four holes, in a hole pattern about 2" in dia. the holes allow for bx to come through them and a set screw on the outer diameter , located in line with each hole , is used to secure the bx in place. it is common in many houses in the boston area.

Yes this is common everywhere but there is no reason why you cannot install a light over this box.

 

[Mr 3phase]

Yes this is common everywhere but there is no reason why you cannot install a light over this box.

Ok, my only concern was that it is not a true junction box and the BX is not rated for 90 degrees celsius. The old light fixtures have a 'canopy' that provides for a lot of room for the wires and they are not up againts the fixture, as they would be in a new one.

 

[George Stolz]

It would be nice to see a picture.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have no idea what he has. I thought he had a regular box with a nipple in the middle where you could screw this fitting on. Wow I found this on the internet but the url is from 480 sparky's photobucket album.

The box I envisioned is similar to this-- best I could find.

 

[JES2727]

I think I know what he's referring to. It's not like any of the images posted. I have one out in my garage, but it's cold and snowy out there so I'm not going after it. It's basically a hunk of cast metal with some holes in it for cable entry and a threaded hub in the center for a nipple. Not really an 'enclosure', I guess the fixture canopy served that purpose.
I believe a "rosetta" is a porcelain or ceramic piece that attached to the ceiling and supported a pendant type fixture.

 

[Mr 3phase]

I think I know what he's referring to. It's not like any of the images posted. I have one out in my garage, but it's cold and snowy out there so I'm not going after it. It's basically a hunk of cast metal with some holes in it for cable entry and a threaded hub in the center for a nipple. Not really an 'enclosure', I guess the fixture canopy served that purpose.
I believe a "rosetta" is a porcelain or ceramic piece that attached to the ceiling and supported a pendant type fixture.

You are exactly right in regard to the item I am trying to describe. I am not sure whast the heck you call it. I would like to know the correct term too.
I find these things in a lot of old homes in Boston and the outlying areas. They are a pain because not all light fixtures will go over them and being technical, BX is not rated as 90 degress celsius, so unless I am wrong, this 'thing' has to be removed, the bx secured inot a metal old work box, a peice of romex the installed from the old work box to a plastic old work box (or another metal one), and the new light fixture mounted to that. About two hours in labor.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have seen lots of things in my day but I have never seen what you describe. Sounds like a round plate with knockouts and stem.

 

[JES2727]

Here's a pic of the unidentified fixture mounting device:

Inside it is marked "HOPE 34 D" ( there's a joke there, but I'm not telling it) and "PAT. 1-2-23"

And a rosetta:

The smaller top part is marked "PAISTE" " K.W." " 2 AMP" " 125 V."

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't think that is what the op is talking about. What you have is similar to what I showed and it is a jb.

 

[Mr 3phase]

Here's a pic of the unidentified fixture mounting device:

Inside it is marked "HOPE 34 D" ( there's a joke there, but I'm not telling it) and "PAT. 1-2-23"

And a rosetta:

The smaller top part is marked "PAISTE" " K.W." " 2 AMP" " 125 V."

The metal or cast iron item you showed was pretty much what I was describing. If some one can tell me how to post a picture of it, I will. However, going by what you showed, what IS it called?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The metal or cast iron item you showed was pretty much what I was describing. If some one can tell me how to post a picture of it, I will. However, going by what you showed, what IS it called?

Read this thread to post a picture