Estimating office space

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Ravenvalor

Senior Member
Happy New Year Everyone,

How many man hours does it take to wire a 5,400 sq ft office space 9' ceilings, metal stud walls, not including driving and setup?

It will have 38 layin troffers, 6 - 4' strips, 3 - recessed lights, 11 - emergency lights, 2 - 60amp hvac, 2 - 20amp water heaters, 5 - bath fans, 50 - receptacles, 16 - phone roughin boxes, 9 - occupancy sensors, 2 - panels / 3 - phase 30space plugins, 2 - phone services.

Thanks, electricians seem to be underbidding and going bankrupt around here. I plan to avoid that fate.

JB
 

JeffD

Member
Location
cleveland, oh
Just from the sf I would say from 400-540 hours. From the take off you have I only come up with around 240 hours. The density of devices seem lower than I'm used to so it will probably be lower than the 400. All labor units should include the driving, set-up, unloading, and everything else associated with the job.

Good luck.
 

Ravenvalor

Senior Member
All labor units should include the driving, set-up, unloading, and everything else associated with the job.

Good luck.

Hey Jeff,

I am using Accubid T&M Billing for mt estimate. I did not know that each labor unit already included the driving, set-up, unloading, and everything else associated with the job.

Thank you for the help.

JB
 

JeffD

Member
Location
cleveland, oh
NECA Manual of Labor Units has an introduction that has a good description of what is and is not in labor units. Or I should say what should be and should not be in typical labor units. I think it is worth the investment if someone is self taught and not had mentoring in the estimating side.
 

Ravenvalor

Senior Member
NECA Manual of Labor Units has an introduction that has a good description of what is and is not in labor units. Or I should say what should be and should not be in typical labor units. I think it is worth the investment if someone is self taught and not had mentoring in the estimating side.

Thanks for the good advice Jeff, I owe you one.

JB
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
It will have 38 layin troffers, 6 - 4' strips, 3 - recessed lights, 11 - emergency lights, 2 - 60amp hvac, 2 - 20amp water heaters, 5 - bath fans, 50 - receptacles, 16 - phone roughin boxes, 9 - occupancy sensors, 2 - panels / 3 - phase 30space plugins, 2 - phone services.

Things that might have been missed or unaccounted for (or unknown): :)

NO RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY You PUBLICLY to the following list:

New or existing building? Is it a free standing building, if not are there rated fire walls requiring special fire mating on some boxes. Is there a gysum ceiling above
the lay-in ceiling?

No mention of F/A? Is a circuit required?

F/A in most cases can be a stubbed pipe out of a hard box and plaster ring to above ceiling. ~ equaling - two bundles of 10’.

I’ll assume lay-in ceiling, so rod ceiling attachment for lay-in lights+ all other things in the ceiling.
74+6+22=102x 2 per light = 204 connections @ 10(minutes)/per light= 2040 c.m.

2040 conn. minutes/ 60 minutes-hr = 34 hours of strapping.
Of course it just dependson the AHJ. A buildin code issue around here.

No egress outside lighting over door-outside, city ordiance here, no outside lights or spot lights?

What type of emergency lights, all bug eyes or 2 x 4 with emergency ballasts?
Or are all just directional exit signs or combinations, exit and bug? No lighting contact to turn off all lights, just a consideration for the green moment!

HVAC: disconnects; fused and flex fittings, who’s making and paying for roof penetrations. (more conduit), means of disconnect for both services - 4 total
Is there a Heat strip and does this require any special considerations?

H2O water heater(s). : (2?) Local disconnects, if placed above ceiling?

No H2O cooler listed - GFCI required, usually new ADA style that’s inside the machine per design. Get a cut sheet from the Plumber/Arch.

Break room / Kitchenette / Wet Bar - GFCI usually installed
Additional circuit for large refrigerator?
One more additional circuit for toasters, microwave, under cabinet lighting?

50 receptacles - no mention of copy room/ copier printer - fax, entrance greater area/secretary pool, mop/closet room. All might need more circuits or electrical considerations. Bathroom getting a air hand dryer or paper towels. Lately been seeing no GFCI in Public Bathrooms.

All assume that the job is calling for all conduit but the job will be done with MC?

Phone drops all need conduit up to at least above ceiling, tie down exact amount of telephone drop circuit per drop telephone and another Cat-5, 6. Granted job is usually farmed out but it is part of your bid to sub it ? Tie down exact face plate for telephone jacks with two phone service and exact conduit and box size?
4-11/16 and 1" conduit is ususall in this area.

You account for all the straping of conduits, mud rings, total count of boxs, various wire nuts, various size boxes(add a few 4-11/16 in the correct places)?

No TV’s, no conference room considerations. Telephone jack in kitchen or copy room, (both might be extra’s).

Did they design a nice electrical space and note the telephone demark? Existing or not, probably not. :mad:

Wheres the source of power, anything special for you to consider there?

I didn’t have anything better to do so I thought I'd break down my thoughts on your list…
 
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tyha

Senior Member
Location
central nc
I have unit prices for every item you just laid out that are tweaked and tested over the years and spot on. However, being you are an electrical contractor from the piedmont of nc just as i am I would tell you not to bid anything less than $70,000. No but seriously, the info you gave is all i would need for an estimate other than the length of the service if there was one.
 

Ravenvalor

Senior Member
Result

Result

I have unit prices for every item you just laid out that are tweaked and tested over the years and spot on. However, being you are an electrical contractor from the piedmont of nc just as i am I would tell you not to bid anything less than $70,000. No but seriously, the info you gave is all i would need for an estimate other than the length of the service if there was one.

The result of my estimate was about $42,000.00. I lost the bid because I was 5% - 15% too high. I bid this job competitively but not to lose money. Thanks to all for the help.

JB
 

tryinghard

Senior Member
Location
California
Accubid's good stuff, but really any is as long as a method is consistanly used and tweeked to reality for both labor and material. NECA labor is proven as its built use multipliers for your specific ability and over time your labor take-offs will be really close to actuals. The material can often be the easiest to estimate, it's the labor that really needs a close look. Does Accubid T&M extend the labor and material in a summary page?
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
Just goes to prove that the better estimator you are as to the actual job cost/bid the less likely you are to get the job...

It's better to miss the job than lose money.
 

tkb

Senior Member
Location
MA
Accubid has 6 labor columns.
The 3 NECA and 3 Accubid.

I use the column 1 for Accubid competitive labor units, I use the NECA for change orders.

I like the Accubid Change Order Program, I tried T&M but switched to CO.
 

tryinghard

Senior Member
Location
California
Just goes to prove that the better estimator you are as to the actual job cost/bid the less likely you are to get the job...

It's better to miss the job than lose money.

I'm confused? Better estimator should be accurate within a very small percentage of actual - including changes. Sure right on with missing a looser we often say we don't want all the jobs only all the right ones; job selection is critical.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
I'm confused? Better estimator should be accurate within a very small percentage of actual - including changes. Sure right on with missing a looser we often say we don't want all the jobs only all the right ones; job selection is critical.

Sometimes when your honest abot costs up front, people don't read it right, so you don't get the job. Becomes an issue of who you want to have for a customer. Sometimes getting one out of six jobs is doing good...
 

tryinghard

Senior Member
Location
California
Sometimes when your honest abot costs up front, people don't read it right, so you don't get the job. Becomes an issue of who you want to have for a customer. Sometimes getting one out of six jobs is doing good...
I agree and one thing?s for sure the books will reveal :), tracking is imperative. A good estimate is a thorough estimate close to reality for one's specific company but the market will only bare what it will.
 
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