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memyselfandI

memyselfandI

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Hampton Roads, Virginia
In the state of Virginia, it is not required for an individual to do work as a tradesman as long as there is a certified (Master) tradesman in the company. Prior to 1995 is was a requirement here to be certified in order to work a job as a tradesman, especially electrical, but now it's not. The reason I am posting this here in this section is to get an understanding of how some engineers feel about non certified people installing the electrical systems that they design versus someone who has a basic understanding about the procedure and requirements for a safe installation. My question to everyone is how do you feel about this?
 
I agree with shams. A person with very limited training but able to follow instructions can produce acceptable work. In the same way a person who has supposedly been trained properly may in fact be unqualified and have the wrong approach while thinking he is qualified and doing the job correctly, i.e. a soldier who thinks it's the best approach to empty the clip when in doubt.
 
skeshesh said:
I agree with shams. A person with very limited training but able to follow instructions can produce acceptable work. In the same way a person who has supposedly been trained properly may in fact be unqualified and have the wrong approach while thinking he is qualified and doing the job correctly, i.e. a soldier who thinks it's the best approach to empty the clip when in doubt.
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Supervision is a must I agree as long as the more experienced person is on site to teach, and not everything can be learned from a book either. Any individual can acceptable work as long as someone takes the time to teach them properly and guides them through the processes.
As far as your example of emptying the clip that is true...for a soldier. I, on the other hand, am a Marine and would gladly empty the magazine if required to do so.
 
No problem if the unskilled are looking to become skilled, BS if it is just for low wage.

Empty the clip and reload until they stop moving , is what I tell my wife and tell the cops " I feared for my life, I need a lawyer".
 
MemyselfandI, I absolutely agree. I've read plenty of books in college and continue to do so but I've learned just as much from experienced technicians that I work with all the time. But a certificate or degree does not necessarily mean someone is teaching or learning correctly - plenty of experienced engineers and technicians have moments of lapses when they can teach something fundamentally wrong, and that is not to say they don't know better but everyone has a brain fart now and again. In contrast, there are licensed and degreed persons with years of experience who have, through ignorance and lack of interest, not accumulated comprehensive knowledge and have just memorized things here and there.
As far as the comment about the clip, this is not a forum appropriate for that discussion so I'll leave it at that.

sameguy said:
No problem if the unskilled are looking to become skilled, BS if it is just for low wage.

Empty the clip and reload until they stop moving , is what I tell my wife and tell the cops " I feared for my life, I need a lawyer".
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I don't understand your comment. Do you mean to say its BS if they there due to the fact that it's a low wage position and they can make some money? In that case that's an issue of the intentions of the owner of the business and irrelevant. The point is that under proper supervision it's very likely that a competent person who can follow directions but is not interested in electrical trade can do an equal if not better job than an incompetent person who cannot take directions but who is very much interested in the trade. Not everyone in every trade has to be involved to make a career out of it.
Also, your wife sounds like a nice lady and it's great to hear that she's receiving such prudent advise from you. Best of luck evading the law enforcement.
 
Follow the money

Follow the money

memyselfandI said:
In the state of Virginia, it is not required for an individual to do work as a tradesman as long as there is a certified (Master) tradesman in the company. Prior to 1995 is was a requirement here to be certified in order to work a job as a tradesman, especially electrical, but now it's not. The reason I am posting this here in this section is to get an understanding of how some engineers feel about non certified people installing the electrical systems that they design versus someone who has a basic understanding about the procedure and requirements for a safe installation. My question to everyone is how do you feel about this?
Click to expand...

The rules were changed for a reason. That reason may due to lobbying and influencing by a group having a vested interest in getting it changed. IF you can find out who or what group was behind the change you'll have a big part of the answer. Money usually works to make more money for those that allready have it. :mad:
 
Here if they can bend a 3/4" 90 and run conduit. Bingo , they got a job, $8.00 an hour is what they might expect.
Keep in mind some buildings have 100's of miles of conduit to be run.
 
I do believe that a journeyman/master needs to be on the jobsite to supervise. That would come from Va. DPOR.
 
"your wife sounds like a nice lady and it's great to hear that she's receiving such prudent advise from you." Thank you.
What I think is, this is a craft and not burger flipping. For the state to drop down to any person with out supervision doing electrical work as long as a person in the Co. is a"master"makes me feel like it was changed for dollar reasons.
Why would you do electrical work if you have no interest in the trade? Money. With the change in the law I now can go pick up day labor to do the work; fine if I can do the same for other jobs, teacher, doctor, judge, cop, engineer.
 
Skeshesh,
I agree that all knowledge cannot come from books and has to be learned in a practical application. So you don't have a problem with someone taking your job, not knowing what he is doing but is a good follower of directions and can can get the job done cheaper? In other words...it's all about the money right? HecK I knew that before I posted this and didn't come from that conclusion from a book but from common sense...something that isn't taught but acquired.

My reference to the magazine is a signature for my profile and was not part of my original post. The subject was brought up by you in your response to my question so we can discuss that in a forum that is more appropriate if that is what you choose to do.
 
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