Fuse box change out

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JDSparks

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Doing a simple fuse box to breaker panel change out. Per code do I have to use fire arc breakers? Will be using same circuits. Just going from fuse box to breaker panel.
 
You would have to check with the local AHJ to see if they require the panel be brought up to code.

In some areas we don't even need a permit for a panel change. So far I have never needed to use arc fault breakers just on a panel change but that doesn't mean that no areas will require this.

Call an inspector and ask.
 
JDSparks said:
Doing a simple fuse box to breaker panel change out. Per code do I have to use fire arc breakers? Will be using same circuits. Just going from fuse box to breaker panel.
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I suppose you are talking about Arc Fault breakers. There is nothing in the code that requires you to upgrade the existing circuits. However some areas have their own requirements on upgrading. You might want to check with your AHJ on this.

Sorry Growler, we must have posted at the same time.
 
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I upgraded an electrical panel and tried to install afci breakers to comply with current code. I had no problem except with one afci breaker that fed a 2nd floor bedroom and kept tripping. I couldn't figure it out and installed a different afci breaker and it continued to trip. I put a regular breaker in and had no problem at all and it never tripped. IMO, I don't think many AHJ's will make you put afci's in an upgrade. The inspector later told me that afci's are not required when upgrading a panel box, unless you are running new branch circuits, such as an addition to home. The upgrade I did was in a 60 year old house and I wasn't planning on inspecting every electrical box in that bedroom to solve why the afci was mysteriously tripping. IMO, afci breakers are junk and are nothing but problems.
 
Ken 6789 said:
I upgraded an electrical panel and tried to install afci breakers to comply with current code. I had no problem except with one afci breaker that fed a 2nd floor bedroom and kept tripping. I couldn't figure it out and installed a different afci breaker and it continued to trip. I put a regular breaker in and had no problem at all and it never tripped. IMO, I don't think many AHJ's will make you put afci's in an upgrade. The inspector later told me that afci's are not required when upgrading a panel box, unless you are running new branch circuits, such as an addition to home. The upgrade I did was in a 60 year old house and I wasn't planning on inspecting every electrical box in that bedroom to solve why the afci was mysteriously tripping. IMO, afci breakers are junk and are nothing but problems.
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Ken,
The bedroom that kept tripping was probably using a shared neutral and an AFCI won't operate with a shared neutral.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Or there was a problem on the circuit that a standard breaker can not detect. :)
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I didn't mean to infer that sharing the neutral was the only reason for the AFCI tripping. Should have worded it different. That was the most common thing that I have heard causing the AFCI to trip on an upgrade.:cool:
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Or there was a problem on the circuit that a standard breaker can not detect. :)
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You mean something like an arc fault?

This is just my opinion but if they were going to require arc fault breakers anywhere they should require them on old houses where they may do some good. Most new homes don't have that many problems with electrical fires and arcing circuits and probably won't for the next 30-40 years and by then the breakers will be to old to do any good.

The one place where an arc fault breaker could actually do some good is a place where it's not required, older homes.
 
JDSparks said:
Doing a simple fuse box to breaker panel change out. Per code do I have to use fire arc breakers? Will be using same circuits. Just going from fuse box to breaker panel.
Click to expand...

In our area our AHJ requires them on change-outs.
The AFCI can be a pain on old construction.
We also add battery operated smoke detectors in bd.rms & ajoining rooms.
We also GFCI protect areas required,such as counter tops,Bath rms.,outside Receptacles.
As has already been stated older Installations , really need the best protection,
available.
 
Teaspoon said:
In our area our AHJ requires them on change-outs.
The AFCI can be a pain on old construction.
We also add battery operated smoke detectors in bd.rms & ajoining rooms.
We also GFCI protect areas required,such as counter tops,Bath rms.,outside Receptacles.
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So how many people decide they cannot afford to do a service change because an AHJ has gone overboard with additional requirements. :mad:
 
How can you bid a job based on use of afci in an area where you were not responsible for wiring. Some homes have a nightmare in the existing wiring and there is no way I want to be responsible for those issues.

I agree with Bob the inspector is going beyond the NEC and IMO, the 2011 has made this clearer.
 
growler said:
You mean something like an arc fault?

This is just my opinion but if they were going to require arc fault breakers anywhere they should require them on old houses where they may do some good. Most new homes don't have that many problems with electrical fires and arcing circuits and probably won't for the next 30-40 years and by then the breakers will be to old to do any good.

The one place where an arc fault breaker could actually do some good is a place where it's not required, older homes.
Click to expand...

'Cept that many older homes have MWBC's. Even K&T houses have a halo in the attic with A phase, B phase and a neutral. This would make it difficult to add arc-fault breakers.
 
Ahem .... what sort of circumstance allows a simple 'fuse box changeout?'

The only such changeouts I've seen have been hack jobs, performed by unqualified folks who feared inspections, or were trying to cheap out, or both. Naturally, there's a lot I don't know, and a lot I have not seen.

If this is a residential change inspired by the insurance company, you probably need to do a complete service change- including a new mast, meter base, and ground rod. Simply swapping boxes is not an option.
 
Here in Florida the state run homeowners insurance company - Citizens Insurance - won't insure a house with fuses. They require a changeout to breakers. If a homeowner asks me to do the changeout, I usually do a load calculation on the house and inspect the meter base and riser for problems. If the load calcs show a need to increase the service I give the owner an estimate for doing so. If they have had no problems with their main fuses blowing and have no intentions of adding anything else to the load IMO it should be their decision about whether they upgrade the service or not. That certainly does not make me a hack nor does it indicate I'm afraid of inspections.
Just because people do things differently than those in an ideal world, that doesn't make them wrong or less of a contractor. It only makes them different.
 
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