I was inspecting a master bath whirlpool tub that was energized by a switched receptacle on an 110v ITE GFCI breaker. All was testing normally when I installed my red GB GFCI tester to check polarity and got nothing... no illuminated lights at all. Plugged the pump back in and got full force pump operation. Opened the switch and pump went off. Closed the switch..on. Exercised GFI.. and it opened the circuit. Reset and checked with tester at receptacle...nothing. Put the tick tracer on and yes... it has power, pump works, no illumination from tester. Checked the tester, and it is ok... lit up and tripped all other GFCis. Put the Ideal Sure Test on and nothing. So, how can a receptacle have power and run a pump but still not energize testers? I gave up and instructed my client to have an electrician further evaluate bc a suspect GFCI circuit on a whirlpool tub is not a good thing.
Receptacle that does not energize GB or Ideal GFCI tester(s) but runs a 110v pump?
- Thread starter ThomasRay
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hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
There is only one possibility I can think of that as per your description would give you this result, and that is you didn't turn on the switch when you had the tester plugged in, without the switch being turned on you would not have any power to light up the tester or trip the GFCI, the only other thing is they used a duplex receptacle and broke the tab on the hot side of the receptacle so one side wouldn't work and you plugged into that side of the receptacle?
possibility.... since it's on a GFCI breaker, is it a duplex recpetacle ?
(as opposed to a GFCI recpept)
If so, is it possible the E/C cut the "tie strap" ?
If so you could be testing the "dead" half with the pump in the "live" half
just a possibility
(as opposed to a GFCI recpept)
If so, is it possible the E/C cut the "tie strap" ?
If so you could be testing the "dead" half with the pump in the "live" half
just a possibility
Single receptacle. I checked this thing out 6 ways to Sunday. Breaker on-off, GFCi tripped - reset, Switch on - off. Pump operated, tick tracer was live, no response from 2 separate testers that tested ok when verified on vanity and other circuits. I have never seen a wiring config that did not energize the testers and still be live.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
If you understand how a 3-light tester operates and how it is internally wired you would understand my response, these testers are very simple, they have neon lamps in them, you have one between the hot and neutral, one between the hot and ground, and one between the neutral and ground ( the one that doesn't light if wired correctly) also if the tester has a GFCI test button there is a resistor between a switch and ground with the other side of the switch going to the hot, that is all there is to them.
so to not get any lights something must not be allowing the hot to make contact with the tester.
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
I agree that something is interfering with the testers, but it doesn't make sense that the pump would make contact while two plug-in testers would not. The only thing that would cause this to happen is if the tabs in the receptacle are spread apart just enough to allow the blade(s) of the pump cord to make contact, but not enough to contact the blades of the two testers. Sounds highly unlikely but I guess it's possible. Did the blades on the cord end look like someone had bent them or done something to spread them apart? Did you try wiggling your plug-in testers around in the outlet?
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
How about this?
The receptacle neutral is broken somewhere between the GFI breaker and the receptacle. That makes the plug-in testers not work.
But at the PUMP, some Joe-blow DIY guy couldn't sniff out the problem, so he connected the neutral of the pump to a local ground somewhere. So when the switch is turned on, the pump works now. That of course means that the GFI breaker is NOT properly protecting that pump circuit.
I may be leaving something out here though, I have a nagging little tickle in the back of my brain...
The receptacle neutral is broken somewhere between the GFI breaker and the receptacle. That makes the plug-in testers not work.
But at the PUMP, some Joe-blow DIY guy couldn't sniff out the problem, so he connected the neutral of the pump to a local ground somewhere. So when the switch is turned on, the pump works now. That of course means that the GFI breaker is NOT properly protecting that pump circuit.
I may be leaving something out here though, I have a nagging little tickle in the back of my brain...
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
The only problem with that theory is the GFI breaker would trip as soon as the motor was turned on due to the neutral current taking a different path. It's definetely a head scratcher though!
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Electrical Engineer
There it is!
Duh... no return on the neutral to the GFI breaker. Thanks for getting rid of that tickle.
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