SE to Sub-Panel

[1793]

So, here is a copy of an e-mail I received requesting an Estmate:

"I am looking for best price available. Electrical work as per below: Install a 120volt sub panel in the unfinished area using the existing SEU cable for furnace, refeed furnace Basement Office: Add (3) AFCI protected receptacles Basement Office Closet: Add wiring for (1) fixture with (1) switch and AFCI protection. Customer will provide fixture. Unfinished Area: Add (1) 20amp120volt GFCI circuit for freezer and (1) 20amp/120volt GFCI receptacle for the sump pump"

If they indeed want a sub using the SEU does it not appear that all of the additions would be on one circuit? I have not seen the SEU yet but this just does not look right. Any thoughts?

 

[gndrod]

So, here is a copy of an e-mail I received requesting an Estmate:

"I am looking for best price available. Electrical work as per below: Install a 120volt sub panel in the unfinished area using the existing SEU cable for furnace, refeed furnace Basement Office: Add (3) AFCI protected receptacles Basement Office Closet: Add wiring for (1) fixture with (1) switch and AFCI protection. Customer will provide fixture. Unfinished Area: Add (1) 20amp120volt GFCI circuit for freezer and (1) 20amp/120volt GFCI receptacle for the sump pump"

If they indeed want a sub using the SEU does it not appear that all of the additions would be on one circuit? I have not seen the SEU yet but this just does not look right. Any thoughts?

Hi Norb,
First up, you are correct, Something is wrong. Using the existing SEU to a subpanel needs to be an SER four-wire feeder.

 

[tryinghard]

My thoughts the electrician determines the circuitry not the requester - SEU! Just a few items huh; furnace, freezer, sump pump, general lighting for some particular size office space (non-conditioned of course). No big deal calc it out and get the length of this whopping 120v circuit though it might need to be upsized. They probably don?t have room in the feeding sub fuse panel for a 220v circuit. You better site visit this one or pass.

 

[hurk27]

SE is only a 3-wire cable and can not feed a subpanel, SEU or (USE) is for underground outdoor and not permitted inside of a dwelling, and I'm not sure of SER which is 4-wire and is what would be ok for a subpanel except for a mobile home but is not a listed chapter 3 wiring method?

 

[hurk27]

So, here is a copy of an e-mail I received requesting an Estmate:

"I am looking for best price available. Electrical work as per below: Install a 120volt sub panel in the unfinished area using the existing SEU cable for furnace, refeed furnace Basement Office: Add (3) AFCI protected receptacles Basement Office Closet: Add wiring for (1) fixture with (1) switch and AFCI protection. Customer will provide fixture. Unfinished Area: Add (1) 20amp120volt GFCI circuit for freezer and (1) 20amp/120volt GFCI receptacle for the sump pump"

If they indeed want a sub using the SEU does it not appear that all of the additions would be on one circuit? I have not seen the SEU yet but this just does not look right. Any thoughts?

E-mail bidding can be dangerous way to under price a job, I would also tell them to make sure they have an alarm on both the sump and the freezer, I would not trust them being on GFCI, although I realize it is required by the NEC, I have still had too many trip when the pump switch's off, same with freezers, some cheap GFCI's can be sensitive to inductive kickback, Leviton and a few others have the delay in the GFCI chip that prevents this problem so I use them when I have inductive loads.
Never had to use a 20 amp circuit for a sump before, most sump pumps are only a 1/2hp? or have I ever seen a freezer that required a 20 amp circuit as I have never seen one with a 20 amp plug on the end of its cord. generally if the appliance comes with a 15 amp plug it only requires a 15 amp circuit unless other things will be on that circuit.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

SE is only a 3-wire cable and can not feed a subpanel, SEU or (USE) is for underground outdoor and not permitted inside of a dwelling, and I'm not sure of SER which is 4-wire and is what would be ok for a subpanel except for a mobile home but is not a listed chapter 3 wiring method?

Your partly correct. Yes SE is 2 conductors and ground. They asked for 120 so no problem. One ungrounded ,one grounded and one grounding.

Far as bidding not a chance in h untill i see job and some kind of print.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

SE is only a 3-wire cable and can not feed a subpanel, SEU or (USE) is for underground outdoor and not permitted inside of a dwelling, and I'm not sure of SER which is 4-wire and is what would be ok for a subpanel except for a mobile home but is not a listed chapter 3 wiring method?

Just to clarify that SEU is allowed indoors but USE is not unless it is dual rated and in conduit.

 

[1793]

Hi Norb,
First up, you are correct, Something is wrong. Using the existing SEU to a subpanel needs to be an SER four-wire feeder.

This only a 120V panel, so I can get by with the existing 3 conductor cable.

My thoughts the electrician determines the circuitry not the requester - SEU! Just a few items huh; furnace, freezer, sump pump, general lighting for some particular size office space (non-conditioned of course). No big deal calc it out and get the length of this whopping 120v circuit though it might need to be upsized. They probably don?t have room in the feeding sub fuse panel for a 220v circuit. You better site visit this one or pass.

You are correct, I'm heading out to look at this in the morning. I don't think I really want this one but I'm very curious to see and hear what they have to say.

 

[ceb58]

Stop answering these Craig's List ads.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Stop answering these Craig's List ads.

Times are bad so don't knock it.
I have placed ads in craigs list for jobs i needed done on my house and had great luck.

 

[ceb58]

Times are bad so don't knock it.
I have placed ads in craigs list for jobs i needed done on my house and had great luck.

Thats all fine,well and good when you place an ad wanting some one to give a price for work to be done. But when some one spells out exactly what is to be done and how with out knowing or understanding the code implications you will waste your time after you tell them how they want it done cant be done that way. Their buddy that has changed light bulbs before said it would work and you are trying to cheat them.

 

[tryinghard]

...Never had to use a 20 amp circuit for a sump before, most sump pumps are only a 1/2hp? or have I ever seen a freezer that required a 20 amp circuit as I have never seen one with a 20 amp plug on the end of its cord. generally if the appliance comes with a 15 amp plug it only requires a 15 amp circuit unless other things will be on that circuit.

Still need to size this SEU feeder correctly though - 215.2 - 30 amps +/- 20%??

 

[gndrod]

no 4-wire

no 4-wire

This only a 120V panel, so I can get by with the existing 3 conductor cable.

Sorry Norb, After interpreting the first sentence the way the e-mail stated, led me to believe that using the existing SEU for the furnace included extended circuits with a new 120V sub-panel sounded like tapping the original circuit that is generally a 240V setup. I have got to slow down on my speed readinnnnnng.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Thats all fine,well and good when you place an ad wanting some one to give a price for work to be done. But when some one spells out exactly what is to be done and how with out knowing or understanding the code implications you will waste your time after you tell them how they want it done cant be done that way. Their buddy that has changed light bulbs before said it would work and you are trying to cheat them.

I would look at a craigs list ad as someone needing a job done. Use it only as a contact point to start. Price without seeing would be foolish

 

[slick 50]

Still need to size this SEU feeder correctly though - 215.2 - 30 amps +/- 20%??

Keep an eye on your unbalanced load when doing a 120v subpanel. You may want to go back to main panel and move larger and more continous loads to oppisite phase of subpanel feeder.