panel trim covering

[waynebuilding]

can i place a picture over the panel trim. commercial application architect wants to cover panel with picture in frame. picture covers entire panel trim. does the code address this issue?

 

[hotwire1955]

No, 240.24(A)

 

[220/221]

Yes 240.24(A)

 

[ceb58]

No, 240.24(A)

I agree with no. 240.24 (A) along with (B). point being if you or I walked into this building needing to find a point of disconnect which picture should we look behind?

 

[John120/240]

can i place a picture over the panel trim. commercial application architect wants to cover panel with picture in frame. picture covers entire panel trim. does the code address this issue?

Tell the architect to wait until after final inspection, then the architect can faux paint, wallpaper or hang pictures over the panel.

 

[220/221]

My point was that he asked two opposite questions so both yes and no would be right to one of them.

Hanging a picture over it doesn't make it inaccessible any more than putting it in a closed utility room. You still have to look for it.

That said, I hate when they do it and nobody knows where it is.

 

[volt101]

"Must be readily accessible" - What if they put the picture on a hinges? :roll:

 

[dkidd]

So, you would consider a picture an ?obstacle?? How many electricians does it take to move a picture?

 

[steve66]

If it were up to me, I'd allow it. But its going to be something your AHJ will have to decide.

I would allow it because the picture frame is easily removable, and it has to be removed to work on the panel. Its not like storing boxes in front of the panel where an electrician might be tempted to just try and work around the boxes while the panel is hot.

I'm assuming someone is going to know where the panel is. And I assume there is a separate main disconnect the fire dept. will go for if they need to turn the power off.

P.S. This could be a slipery slope. If you tell the architect "Sure we can put a picture over the panel." he will almost certainly reply "Great. Now what can we do about those Fire Alarm pull stations and strobes, and all those lights switches and receptacles I can still see."

Steve

 

[renosteinke]

It amazes me the extremes folks go through to remove the panel from view. Sometimes I think that the floor could be under a foot of water, the furniture on fire, and the ceiling falling in- yet some folks would still pause to think "my, what an ugly panel!"

One customer of mine forgot about the panel she hid behind a picture - right behind where she sat at her desk. It took me an hour to find the thing.

Another customer went nearly a decade, the combined maintenance staff unable to find the panel that controlled one wing of the building. The panel was discovered, in the main hallway, in plain sight - once they closed the door to an office that had never been closed.

Finally, a restaurant customer had a fabulous mural painted on the wall. The panels (there are three) are nearly impossible to see, even if you know they are there!

In Reno the residential practice is to have the panel on the outside face of the house, at the service. The surest way to find the panel is to look for the largest, thickest, thorniest bush. Quick poll: how many of you keep a pair of 'loppers' or pruning shears handy?

Legal? Sometimes, maybe. Smart? Not hardly.

 

[ceb58]

I'm assuming someone is going to know where the panel is. And I assume there is a separate main disconnect the fire dept. will go for if they need to turn the power off.



Steve

A lot of ass u me

It amazes me the extremes folks go through to remove the panel from view. Sometimes I think that the floor could be under a foot of water, the furniture on fire, and the ceiling falling in- yet some folks would still pause to think "my, what an ugly panel!"

One customer of mine forgot about the panel she hid behind a picture - right behind where she sat at her desk. It took me an hour to find the thing.

Another customer went nearly a decade, the combined maintenance staff unable to find the panel that controlled one wing of the building. The panel was discovered, in the main hallway, in plain sight - once they closed the door to an office that had never been closed.

Finally, a restaurant customer had a fabulous mural painted on the wall. The panels (there are three) are nearly impossible to see, even if you know they are there!

In Reno the residential practice is to have the panel on the outside face of the house, at the service. The surest way to find the panel is to look for the largest, thickest, thorniest bush. Quick poll: how many of you keep a pair of 'loppers' or pruning shears handy?

Legal? Sometimes, maybe. Smart? Not hardly.

That is another great thing about a cordless saw-saw

 

[gary]

Most of the arguements against allowing this could be easily resolved by proper identification of the breaker supplying the panel. "Subpanel behind picture in lobby" or "Subpanel behind door in pantry."

 

[gadfly56]

Most of the arguements against allowing this could be easily resolved by proper identification of the breaker supplying the panel. "Subpanel behind picture in lobby" or "Subpanel behind door in pantry."

And if it's a sub-sub panel? Why not just make a note on the as-builts? I'm sure they are up to date and readily available to all service personnel :grin::grin::grin:.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I see no issue with a picture over a panel other than finding it. I assume in a commercial application someone will know where it is. Also The picture must be able to be taken down without using tools.

 

[volt101]

Knowing the location of the panel is not a requirement of the Fire Department. If it was - I am sure they would have us pave a yellow brick road to it.

What if the service company's meter is remote from the house and the service entrance conductors enter the home underground? They would have to guess where it is. Generators, small wind, solar, batteries, etc would keep them guessing while the building would be heading for flash over. The Fire Departments around here would not waste their time. The utility shows up behind the FD and disconnects at the pole or tap box.

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible)Capable of being reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

This is were my hinged comment came from.

 

[steve66]

One customer of mine forgot about the panel she hid behind a picture - right behind where she sat at her desk. It took me an hour to find the thing.

Another customer went nearly a decade, the combined maintenance staff unable to find the panel that controlled one wing of the building. The panel was discovered, in the main hallway, in plain sight - once they closed the door to an office that had never been closed.

I agree with most of your post, but if someone wants to hid a panel behind a picture and then they forget where it is, having to pay for an hour of labor to find the panel seems more like karma than a code issue.

And the panel behind the door seems to say a lot more about the quality of that particular maintenance staff than it does about suitable locations for a panel.

Steve

 

[steve66]

Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible)Capable of being reached quickly for operation,
 renewal, or inspections without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite to
 climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable ladders, and so forth.

This is were my hinged comment came from.

A picture would be so easy to remove I'm not sure i would consider it an "obstacle".

I guess that would be up to the local AHJ.