What Happened to the NEC ?

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I have found using the NEC Handbook to be a valuable tool in understanding the Code. It is not everyday I install optical fiber cables and work on aircraft hangers, but if I do, I know where to look. The pics help as well.
 
to the game players

to the game players

41 years in the trade, maybe 12-15 years left to work, I doubt my mindset is going to change. I have found that as a single electrician that is NOT involved with making the NEC, I have three choices. I can whine and complain and learn NOTHING, I can dedicate my time to getting on a code panel, or I can do my job and utilize the NEC to insure all my work is code compliant, and keep as up to date as possible on all changes.
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Good for you. I don?t agree with the OP?s attacks but don?t agree with your myopic view of having one of your three choices. I?m with the OP on ?it?s all a game?. The NEC lost me when they sell me a new code book....then try and sell me another that is entitled "unlock the mysteries of the NEC"...whine well I guess so, "learn NOTHING" no I learned lots. I try my best to keep up so that my electrical installation are at the least ?code compliant? and IMHO I don?t have to be a politician to point out how bad are leaders are.
I have had it up to HERE with problems with AFCI breakers, and I think about that times many thousands more across the country, the cost and frustration. You finally have to say this system is WRONG.

[QOUTE[ One could argue that arc fault dangers would have been better mitigated by reactive code changes like eliminating backstab type devices, requiring more receptacles and non NEC changes like higher standards for device terminals and performance etc. versus proactively requiring a new (and basically untested) technology that costs billions of dollars to implement.[QUOTE[

Amen to that. Question: Is there statistics that someone can directly point me to, that will justify the billions of dollars cost to the industry, that the implementation of NEC AFCI has caused? IE: number of lives saved or property amount per cost to the industry.
The NEC is not intended to be a game but when it looks, smells and barks like a dog??
 
to the game players

to the game players

41 years in the trade, maybe 12-15 years left to work, I doubt my mindset is going to change. I have found that as a single electrician that is NOT involved with making the NEC, I have three choices. I can whine and complain and learn NOTHING, I can dedicate my time to getting on a code panel, or I can do my job and utilize the NEC to insure all my work is code compliant, and keep as up to date as possible on all changes.
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Good for you. I don?t agree with the OP?s attacks but don?t agree with your myopic view of having one of your three choices. I?m with the OP on ?it?s all a game?. The NEC lost me when they sell me a new code book....then try and sell me another that is entitled "unlock the mysteries of the NEC"...whine well I guess so, "learn NOTHING" no I learned lots. I try my best to keep up so that my electrical installation are at the least ?code compliant? and IMHO I don?t have to be a politician to point out how bad are leaders are.
I have had it up to HERE with problems with AFCI breakers, and I think about that times many thousands more across the country, the cost and frustration. You finally have to say this system is WRONG.

[QOUTE[ One could argue that arc fault dangers would have been better mitigated by reactive code changes like eliminating backstab type devices, requiring more receptacles and non NEC changes like higher standards for device terminals and performance etc. versus proactively requiring a new (and basically untested) technology that costs billions of dollars to implement.[QUOTE[

Amen to that. Question: Is there statistics that someone can directly point me to, that will justify the billions of dollars cost to the industry, that the implementation of NEC AFCI has caused? IE: number of lives saved or property amount per cost to the industry.
The NEC is not intended to be a game but when it looks, smells and barks like a dog??
 
tjtrout20 said:
Good for you. I don?t agree with the OP?s attacks but don?t agree with your myopic view of having one of your three choices. I?m with the OP on ?it?s all a game?. The NEC lost me when they sell me a new code book....then try and sell me another that is entitled "unlock the mysteries of the NEC"...whine well I guess so, "learn NOTHING" no I learned lots. The NEC is not intended to be a game but when it looks, smells and barks like a dog??
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Game or no game, and I am not impress with how manufactures set on so many boarsd, I still see the options as

Work to change the NEC,

Accept it.

Or do about it and do nothing, except complain? Or the OP Could keep quite about it.

Barking or not barking makes no difference.
 
Don?t know the OP motives, maybe by voicing his disdain for the NEC with hope on Mike Holt?s possible influence, he might, by ?complaining? have some affect on the horrid situation that we all have to live with called the NEC. Just sayin
 
tjtrout20 said:
Don?t know the OP motives, maybe by voicing his disdain for the NEC with hope on Mike Holt?s possible influence, he might, by ?complaining? have some affect on the horrid situation that we all have to live with called the NEC. Just sayin
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Not sure I agree with the description "horrid". I will concede that the NEC is not a perfect document but us common-folk can have an impact on what the book has in it. You simply have to become part of the process and make proposals and also comment on proposals made.

If you do neither of those things you can complain all day and it will fall on deaf ears. In other words... if you don't vote don't bother complaining.:cool:

Pete
 
brian john said:
Why wait so long every electrician has an opinion, just ask one.
Where in the NEC do you see it does not reflect safety?
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Oh, it does reflect safety, but it's also turning into a "save the handyman from killing himself". Not sure if the OP meant that, but I think this is what he was upset about. As I am.
 
Yea ?horrid? was not used correctly in regards to the NEC. Horrid was to describe the section that mandates AFCI protection in 210.12. I do residential work and just grumpy about that this afternoon.
 
My only complaint is that the book is needlessly complicated to read. i find myself keeping track of several different spots in the book while searching for the answer to a single question. sometimes i run out of fingers to save places with! :confused:

However, it is more or less a legal document, and as such, reads like a legal document.
 
To all of the people that do not like the NEC how about you come up with something different - that works. None of us are going to stop you as long as you come up with something that works. Remember the NEC covers just about all electrical installations not just residential, not just commercial. It is published by NFPA which is not a government organization.

From the first page of my 2008 NEC on CDROM:

This Code is purely advisory as far as NFPA is concerned. It is made available for a wide variety of both public and private uses in the interest of life and property protection. These include both use in law and for regulatory purposes, and use in private self-regulation and standardization activities such as insurance underwriting, building and facilities construction and management, and product testing and certification.
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Your local AHJ is welcome to adopt some other standard if they choose to do so.

Does the NEC need improvement? Yes. That is part of why it gets revised every three years. How many times has there been a change only to find out that some other area was effected by the change in a way that maybe was not intended? It is difficult to cover all areas of electrical work in a simple document. If this work was truly simple you would only need high school diploma and 15 minutes training at the tailgate of a truck to do it, but maybe need 4 years of college to make burgers at Burger King.
 
It's funny that electricity has been in use in construction now for a little more than 100 years. Buildings have been constructed for many THOUSANDS of years. Has anyone here ever looked at or read the Building Code? After thousands of years, it is no better than a code that is less than 100 years-old.
Code books are code books. As mentioned earlier, they are more like law-books now, but they need to be with all of the litigation going on in society. If you want to call the electrical construction and power system design a "game", then you had better learn the rules!
I have been in the electrical trade since 1975 and was lucky to apprentice under a Master Electrician that appreciated the Code and knew how to use it. Thanks to this person, I have had a very good career in this business and am now an electrical code specialist and plan checker for a fairly large city near Los Angeles. I admit that the codes are not easy to understand, but neither is anything requiring a professional license. Try getting a Doctorate!
We have the codes and those who have trouble with them had better learn them! They are not going away. So complaining won't do any good. Knowledge is the greatest tool in the universe.......get it and use it!
 
Nec..

Nec..

I understand where you are coming from. The code book is not user friendly. I work in a building of professional engineers and when certain questions arise, we get several different opinions of the code..
 
bdktoys said:
I understand where you are coming from. The code book is not user friendly. I work in a building of professional engineers and when certain questions arise, we get several different opinions of the code..
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As I was told back in the 80's......"Do you know why the NEC book cover is grey? There's nothing in it that's black and white."
 
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