ite panel

[donselectric]

i installed a 100 ite panel and took the jumper between two neutral bars out and used one for neutral and the other one for grounds with the bond screw installed.
inspector said i cant do that and wants a separate bar...i've been trying to find it in the code but haven't been able to locate it. this same inspector also said i couldn't
staple my 2/3 ser to the bottom of basement joists, wants running boards but i got that one 340.10-4 & 334.15 c.
he also said i need nolox on cu/al rated lugs
anyone direct me to the ground bar issue
thanks

 

[chris kennedy]

i installed a 100 ite panel and took the jumper between two neutral bars out and used one for neutral and the other one for grounds with the bond screw installed.
inspector said i cant do that and wants a separate bar...i've been trying to find it in the code but haven't been able to locate it.

He may be grasping at 110.3(B). What you describe is an install I have never done but our resi guys have many time without issue. FWIW, a GB-20 for an ITE loadcenter will run you about $12.

 

[ActionDave]

I have done this often on GE panels.

If you want to fry the inspectors brain leave the panel as is, add a separate ground bar, and move half the EGC's over to the added bar.

 

[jumper]

Sounds like a typical resi install to me. You have no jumper between the bars and the can is bonded. I assume this a sub panel with a 4 wire feeder.

 

[donselectric]

thanks for the replies....
assumption is rite... I've emailed ite to see if its a ul listing issue..
done it before with no problems

 

[infinity]

If you want to fry the inspectors brain leave the panel as is, add a separate ground bar, and move half the EGC's over to the added bar.

How would that be code compliant?

thanks for the replies....
assumption is rite... I've emailed ite to see if its a ul listing issue..
done it before with no problems

I agree that the only possible hangup is the panel listing.

You said that it's a 100 amp panel so what size OCPD do you have protecting this feeder?

 

[220/221]

inspector said i cant do that and wants a separate bar...

It is a separate bar.

Simply ask him to cite the code violation.

 

[jeremysterling]

I have done this often on GE panels.

If you want to fry the inspectors brain leave the panel as is, add a separate ground bar, and move half the EGC's over to the added bar.

How would that be code compliant?

How would it not be code compliant?

It would not win you brownie points with the inspector, but I think ActionDave was trying to acquiesce the inspector's request while illustrating the original install's compliance.

 

[curt swartz]

The issue is the modification of the UL listed piece of equipment. Some inspectors my feel fine about this modification others such as the OP's may want see the installation instructions or a letter from the manufacture stating this modification was ok.

Personally I think this is cheesy way of creating a grounding bar. You are limiting the number of neutral connections for future circuits. I always like each side of the panel to have its own neutral and ground bars. I include the cost of ground bars in my bids.

 

[Teaspoon]

Sounds like a typical resi install to me. You have no jumper between the bars and the can is bonded. I assume this a sub panel with a 4 wire feeder.

If this is a sub panel sounds to me like you are right on target.
4 wires feeding the panel. Neutrals on the right,Grounds on the left.
the can grounded to the ground buss, the cross over bar removed.
Don't see the inspectors problem?

 

[Teaspoon]

The issue is the modification of the UL listed piece of equipment. Some inspectors my feel fine about this modification others such as the OP's may want see the installation instructions or a letter from the manufacture stating this modification was ok.

Personally I think this is cheesy way of creating a grounding bar. You are limiting the number of neutral connections for future circuits. I always like each side of the panel to have its own neutral and ground bars. I include the cost of ground bars in my bids.

I think siemens/ite panels are designed to be used in this manner.
the crossover bar is easily removed.The 200 amp panels is designed to accept the grounding screw on either side for grounding the can to the ground or the neutral.

 

[infinity]

How would it not be code compliant?

It would not win you brownie points with the inspector, but I think ActionDave was trying to acquiesce the inspector's request while illustrating the original install's compliance.

Hmmm the existing bar is non-compliant for some reason and now he wants to move only half of the EGC's to the new bar, so how's that suddenly going to be complaint?

 

[ActionDave]

The existing ground bar is compliant, and I can add another ground bar. I'd have to sober up for a few days before I could find chapter and verse.

 

[macmikeman]

Siemens load centers are listed for the purpose.

 

[kwired]

i installed a 100 ite panel and took the jumper between two neutral bars out and used one for neutral and the other one for grounds with the bond screw installed.
inspector said i cant do that and wants a separate bar...i've been trying to find it in the code but haven't been able to locate it. this same inspector also said i couldn't
staple my 2/3 ser to the bottom of basement joists, wants running boards but i got that one 340.10-4 & 334.15 c.
he also said i need nolox on cu/al rated lugs
anyone direct me to the ground bar issue
thanks

Service panel or feeder panel?

If service panel leave the jumper in, neutrals and equipment grounds can be mixed on the same bar in a service panel but neutrals are limited to one conductor per terminal.

If a feeder supplied panel it would come down to whether manufacturer instructions allow this install. I,ve seen it done but never done it myself. Not sure if it is allowed by manufacturer(s) as I have never looked into it.

Nolox not required on copper conductors and generally not required on most of todays aluminum alloys. The fact that they are cu/al rated lugs did not determine if it was required the use of aluminum conductor did.

 

[curt swartz]

I don't currently use Siemens loadcenters so I'm not very familiar with them. I looked at the Siemens web site and found the following statement from this link.
http://www.sea.siemens.com/us/inter...dential/LoadCenters/Ultimate_Load_Centers.pdf

The neutral tie strap on Ultimate
Load Centers can be removed to
convert the left neutral bar into
a ground bar, and to isolate the
right neutral bar. A lug kit, LKB1
is required for this type of
installation._ The INTS, insulated
neutral tie strap, is not needed on
Ultimate Load Centers.

 

[hurk27]

It is a listing problem and as was stated ITE does allow the jumper to be removed and lug kit (usually supplied in a plastic bag with bonding strap) to be added to the now new grounding bar, neutral side is left floating, and new lug and bonding strap in installed on the GEC side.

Now don't try this with a Square D Home line, or QO panel as it's neutral bar is not listed to be separated, as the bonding screw is in the strap that connects each side and is not designed to be removed.

 

[RAYMFL]

Check the instructions on the panel cover or the instructions supplied with the panel. Usually the information for removing the tie bar can be found there.

Ray

 

[Hendrix]

Siemens load centers are listed for the purpose.

Really? Where does it tell you that?

 

[fishin' electrician]

I think it would be awfully silly for a manufacturer to go through the trouble of designing and making a removable bar where it would not be ok to remove it.