New LED => HID replacemen kits
- Thread starter wyreman
- Start date
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- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
Compare the lumens
And a link to what type of kit would help.
And a link to what type of kit would help.
It's back at office. Notable feature is that it uses heat sink instead of fans. Supposed recent tech breakthrus make this the moment. Say you can change out 6/hr! How long does it take just to set up and move the lift...
I'll look for link later.
I'll look for link later.
thebigmt
Member
- Location
- DFW, Texas
I like the idea. They aren't supposed to attract flying insects, just make sure if it snows where you are at that the fixture lense doesn't get covered with snow because the LED's won't get hot enough to melt it.
weressl
Esteemed Member
That is an anecdotal tale on traffic lights whose wattage is considerably smaller (6-12W) than lights used for general illumination 60-140W. The orientation of the two lights are also different so the packed snow/ice affects the illumination differently, more severly in the case of traffic lights than the streetlights.
thebigmt
Member
- Location
- DFW, Texas
Makes sense, thanks!
Electric-Light
Senior Member
How much is a 3,100 lumen LED tube lamp?
weressl
Esteemed Member
I doubt that. Unless you paying enormous electricity rates the savings are not going to pay for the 'bulb' cost differential between that and another type - either incandescent or CF - light source. You get no return on your investement, it is wasting your money.
weressl
Esteemed Member
About $45-50, compared to the $4.50-5 of the fluorescent tube. There is some variation on the life expectancy of the LED tubes from 40,000 to 80,000Hrs. The lumen output comparison is also tricky, for several reasons.
Electric-Light
Senior Member
IES LM-79 & LM-80 standards which are very stringent compared to LED manufacturers data, yet quite lenient compared to fluorescent performance expectation.
LED life as defined in these standards allow 30% decay, which doesn't even happen even with old F40/CW. Granted they may not "burn out" like traditional light sources, but they decay.
Many drop in LED lamps don't even get a passing grade under these standards. It's very common for even the better LEDs to have an efficacy of below 50 LPW under real life conditions (inside fixture and fully warmed up).
Modern long life fluorescent lamps are rated over 40,000 hours and can have 4 year warranty on lamps. The decay is something between 6-10% over that burn time.
If you were to set 10% loss as cut off for fluorescent replacement applications, LED life is much, much, shorter.
Sylvania:
http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/documents/FL038R1.e5960706-ef72-4c26-9161-633f817703b0.pdf
You could look at the other big two and they have pretty similar characteristics.
Relative to entire luminaire cost, fluorescent lamps reaching end of lamp life is like changing tires. With LEDs, its like changing the engine.
Hi,
I am afraid I have a different opinion. Although the bulb may relative expensive than the tradition one, its average service life is 50,000 hs, which means you need not to change the bulb and it is totally maintenance-free. Besides, it does slash the bill if you change all the bulbs into LED one. I think the saving bills will compensate its cost.
Electric-Light
Senior Member
Hi,
I am afraid I have a different opinion. Although the bulb may relative expensive than the tradition one, its average service life is 50,000 hs, which means you need not to change the bulb and it is totally maintenance-free. Besides, it does slash the bill if you change all the bulbs into LED one. I think the saving bills will compensate its cost.
http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/d...P XL.bc74ac49-8157-44fa-8138-461c57ffc768.pdf
Sylvania's super long life lamps are rated 50,000 hours at 12hr/day operation.
32W nominal
2950lm initial
2832lm mean (after about 20,000 hours of use)
2832/32= 88.5LPW, but it is actually higher in actual use.
Looking at typical high performance RE80 curves, 90% maintenance.
This is no trickery, because published data is based on direct operation on 60Hz because that's just the ANSI testing standards. Actual use is at high frequency which actually improves the lamp efficacy. (60Hz magnetic ballasts are more or less obsolete)
GE-232-MAX-N+
100% output
61W input(30.5W/lamp)
2832 mean lumen = 93 LPW mean approx 87LPW at end of lamp life. 97 LPW when the lamps are new.
As you can see, they do not decay much.
LEDs rated for 50,000 hrs following LM-79/LM-80 standards means that LED's rated life is the point where the output has decayed 30% a VERY GENEROUS performance decay allowance which is about the same as metal halide.
So to even equal fluorescent, a 5900 lumen LED system must:
1.) have mean system efficacy of 93 LPW and shall not fall below 87 LPW by end of life.
2.) have an average life of 50,000 hours at 12hrs/day
3.) driver + LED module(s) can not cost significantly more than ballast + 2 fluorescent lamps
4.) provide light at 3,000K or 3,500K when specified without any compromise in efficacy
#1. Ain't gonna happen with LEDs we have today.
#3. Not just yet.
#4. Usually lower kelvin LEDs have lower LPW and highest LPW LEDs often have CCTs of ~6500K which nobody really wants
Last edited:
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I for one would be cautious when applying lamp life data that is supplied by LED manufacturers. Before I would boast to a client about these new lamps lasting 50,000 hours I would want to see some real world independent studies performed.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Me and LED's have a past. I've installed these lifetime guarantee lights on my boat trailer, twice. Within one year, half of the individual LED's failed, both times. I don't believe what the guy who selling them has to say about their longevity.
Electric-Light
Senior Member
Me and LED's have a past. I've installed these lifetime guarantee lights on my boat trailer, twice. Within one year, half of the individual LED's failed, both times. I don't believe what the guy who selling them has to say about their longevity.
The WORST warranties are those you have to send it back and they actually expect you to send them a check for anywhere from $5 to $10 for return shipping & handling.
Good warranty, like Sandisk offers on their memory card is that they email you a UPS return label and they take the broken product back and of course, they ship it back to you.
Even so called "lifetime warranty" can be called good warranty or BS warranty.
An LED module with a 1,000 lumen output will require at least 12W and LEDs expect to stay cool like a computer chip or the efficiency and life drops dramatically.
This is a heatsink for a computer CPU with about 60W heat output. Almost a pound of pure copper and it requires a fan. Occasional cleaning is needed to ensure proper cooling.
CREE troffer expects installation in a ceiling space used for air handling. CREE can light is only 10 or 12W.The CREE LR6-DR1000 gets 80 LPW, but the heatsink is MASSIVE and weighs like 3 lbs to maintain temperatures necessary for optimal efficiency in a space with limited air flow using just natural air flow.
Fan cooled LEDs will kill the misconception that LEDs "use almost no power and runs cool" and they are used for high power LED color changing disco lights and such.
Probably better for lighting contractors since it adds creates fan cleaning for maintenance task.
Obviously, fan adds noise and whatever power used by the fan is counted against system efficacy.
well, a vvvvvery honest guy. But will you make the study urself? Have u got the rusult yet?
Electric-Light
Senior Member
How about the manufacturer/supplier/importer supply a product sample to be sent to an independent testing lab on THEIR dime?
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