6 watt LED lamps in a non IC rated recessed can?

[aelectricalman]

Is it really an issue?
I am installing 4" Non IC cans in my home because I can not find an old work 4" can that is IC rated!
I am willing to put this in my home but only because I dont know the cons! I know this is a UL violation for the can use because it will come in contact with insulation. I do not plan to ever move from my home and Im pretty sure the time my lamps burn out, Ill be replacing them with LED or better (25 years later). Im just looking for opinions!

 

[LarryFine]

I made 1-foot cube cages of 1/4" wire mesh that I stapled against the joists for non-IC 4" swivels. They keep insulation 3" or more away, and make everyone happy.

 

[al hildenbrand]

You won't be able to get this for the low dollars of the incandescant non IC 4", but Halo has a line of LED recessed lights. Click here. They offer a 4" Air Tite IC LED that, according to them is:

H455RICAT120D is an insulated ceiling, AIR-TITE™, remodel housing offering 120 volt dimming capability with many electronic low voltage (recommended) or incandescent dimmers. Designed for use with EL4 series LED Light Engines, the H455RICAT120D offers high quality downlighting along with high efficacy – the result being great lighting and significant energy savings.

 

[weressl]

Is it really an issue?
I am installing 4" Non IC cans in my home because I can not find an old work 4" can that is IC rated!
I am willing to put this in my home but only because I dont know the cons! I know this is a UL violation for the can use because it will come in contact with insulation. I do not plan to ever move from my home and Im pretty sure the time my lamps burn out, Ill be replacing them with LED or better (25 years later). Im just looking for opinions!

Your issue is not with the fire hazard as the LED's not likely to get hot enough to be the source of ignition. The problem maybe - as with any LED installation - that the heat generated by the LED's need to be removed otherwise it compromises the LED's life. In other words even if you have IC rated cans the heat trapped damages your LED's but the temperature would never get high enough to actuate the thermal cutout.

 

[aelectricalman]

Your issue is not with the fire hazard as the LED's not likely to get hot enough to be the source of ignition. The problem maybe - as with any LED installation - that the heat generated by the LED's need to be removed otherwise it compromises the LED's life. In other words even if you have IC rated cans the heat trapped damages your LED's but the temperature would never get high enough to actuate the thermal cutout.

It would surely effect the driver, but I don't see that amount of heat effecting the actual LED's. Thanks for the input!

 

[al hildenbrand]

. . . I don't see that amount of heat effecting the actual LED's.

The diode, itself, has to be kept below its breakdown temperature. If the surround is not an adequate heat sink, the LEDiode will fail.

An LED designed for free air, when enclosed in a recessed housing will, simply, not be in free air. The effective ambient temp inside the recessed housing will be higher, and one can reasonably assume that the heat sink for the LED is not designed with that higher ambient in mind.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Is it really an issue?

Yes.

That is, if I understand what you wrote correctly.

Laszlo and I are both saying the same thing.

 

[Little Bill]

Is it really an issue?
I am installing 4" Non IC cans in my home because I can not find an old work 4" can that is IC rated!
I am willing to put this in my home but only because I dont know the cons! I know this is a UL violation for the can use because it will come in contact with insulation. I do not plan to ever move from my home and Im pretty sure the time my lamps burn out, Ill be replacing them with LED or better (25 years later). Im just looking for opinions!

Yes.

That is, if I understand what you wrote correctly.

Laszlo and I are both saying the same thing.

You and Laszlo can agree and Larry and I can agree. I'm reading that the OP is planning on using the cans now with regular bulbs and replacing later with CFLs.

 

[al hildenbrand]

6 watt LED lamps in a non IC rated recessed can?

Is it really an issue?

I'm reading that the OP is planning on using the cans now with regular bulbs and replacing later with CFLs.

It seems that the opening post question is about LEDs, however.

 

[Little Bill]

It seems that the opening post question is about LEDs, however.

You are correct, I didn't even read (or retain) the subject line, sorry!

 

[al hildenbrand]

You are correct, I didn't even read (or retain) the subject line, sorry!

No worries.

I was fixated on the "IC" in my next to the last post, until I took the point about building an insulation dam. I changed my response to a more general "recessed housing" rather than specifying non-IC or IC.

 

[Electric-Light]

Is it really an issue?
I am installing 4" Non IC cans in my home because I can not find an old work 4" can that is IC rated!
I am willing to put this in my home but only because I dont know the cons! I know this is a UL violation for the can use because it will come in contact with insulation. I do not plan to ever move from my home and Im pretty sure the time my lamps burn out, Ill be replacing them with LED or better (25 years later). Im just looking for opinions!

If you get crappy LEDs with poor thermal design, it'll be more like 25 DAYS.

 

[hurk27]

The issue I see from what I gather is your going to use a can that takes regular medium base lamps, ad as long as you keep the insulation 3" away by using some kind of dam, as was said I don't see a problem, but if not, and this is going to be inspected then I can see a problem if the house is ever sold because the next person will not know the cans are NON-IC rated and put regular lamps in it, no differant that puting a medium base fixture in a closet 6" from the shelf with a CFL in it and calling it good, it wouldn't fly around here as they inspect the fixture to what can be installed in it.

As far as LED's go, the hotter they run the shorter their life, I have yet to see one go very long before its at about 50% briteness, we have an eco friendly library here that they installed LED parking lot lights, they were kind of brite at first, but because they stay on all night, after 2 months they barely light up the pole their mounted on, much less the parking lot.