Ungrounded Branch Circuit Question

[bjp_ne_elec]

Scenario 1. Ungrounded lighting circuit in basement. Can you add switches to the circuit using 14/3 with ground as long as any new boxes are plastic?

Scenario 2. Existing circuit is ungrounded and your running a new grounded branch for circuit. Can existing parts of that circuit, buried in walls, still be picked up off of new ground circuit even though those existing parts of circuit are ungrounded?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Scenario 1. Ungrounded lighting circuit in basement. Can you add switches to the circuit using 14/3 with ground as long as any new boxes are plastic?

Legally or not? No since switches need to be grounded-

[/quote]Scenario 2. Existing circuit is ungrounded and your running a new grounded branch for circuit. Can existing parts of that circuit, buried in walls, still be picked up off of new ground circuit even though those existing parts of circuit are ungrounded?[/QUOTE] If I understand you- yes. But depending on what code you are under you need to use AFCI.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

See 406.3(D)(3)

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Ops, I missed the word 'switch'. That does not happen often to me, not more than 7 or 8 times a day anyway...

Take a look at 404.9(B) Exception to (B)

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Looking very quickly at 250.130(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions.
I do not see this same wording for switches/lighting circuits, but I will look to see if there is something in the NEC for it.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Looking very quickly at 250.130(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions.
I do not see this same wording for switches/lighting circuits, but I will look to see if there is something in the NEC for it.

If you can get a switch that does not need grounding it may be compliant. Good luck with that-- I think they make them.

 

[iwire]

Looking very quickly at 250.130(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions.
I do not see this same wording for switches/lighting circuits, but I will look to see if there is something in the NEC for it.

Isn't adding a switch leg a branch circuit extension?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Isn't adding a switch leg a branch circuit extension?

IMO, no but in the NEC's intent --IDK.

 

[iwire]

IMO, no but in the NEC's intent --IDK.

I don't think there is any question adding a switch-leg to an existing branch circuit would be a branch circuit extension.

Branch Circuit. The circuit conductors between the final
overcurrent device protecting the circuit and the outlet(s).

 

[Finite10]

Scenario 1. Ungrounded lighting circuit in basement. Can you add switches to the circuit using 14/3 with ground as long as any new boxes are plastic?

This is a branch circuit extension. 250.130 (C) says the EGC shall be ?permitted? to be connected by methods 1-5. The same wording is used before that in 250.130. Seems a bit open to me as to whether you shall connect to grounding using one of the permitted methods? OR? you shall be permitted to connect to ground if you want to, by one of those methods. The FPN refers to 406.3 (D) using GFI as replacement recepts. All referred to by Pierre.

Scenario 2. Existing circuit is ungrounded and your running a new grounded branch for circuit. Can existing parts of that circuit, buried in walls, still be picked up off of new ground circuit even though those existing parts of circuit are ungrounded?

Are there both plugs and switches on the existing extension? As Pierre cited -404.9 (B) exc. B to B, and 406.3,(3) might be mentioned in a call to the AHJ. Seems like it may be open to interpretation by intent.

Dennis -I like the new avatar.

 

[kwired]

Dennis -I like the new avatar.

He is living some past fantasy -not only with the avatar itself but he has used the same avatar before