UL vs CSA

[kbsparky]

Can items listed by CSA be installed in the US even if they are not listed by UL? I don't believe that UL has exclusive rights to testing/listing, since there are other Nationally recognized testing agencies available?

Doesn't CSA have some sort of reciprocity here?

 

[kwired]

Can items listed by CSA be installed in the US even if they are not listed by UL? I don't believe that UL has exclusive rights to testing/listing, since there are other Nationally recognized testing agencies available?

Doesn't CSA have some sort of reciprocity here?

As far as the NEC goes when something is required to listed it just says by a NRTL.

I did a search for 'UL' in my electronic 2008 NEC and had 87 hits. They were all in FPN's or in Annexes.

 

[Mgraw]

CSA is a NRTL in the US according to OSHA. They also write some US ANSI standards. ANSI Z21.47 and ANSI Z21.83 are gas appliance standards written by CSA.

 

[kbsparky]

CSA is a NRTL in the US according to OSHA. They also write some US ANSI standards. ANSI Z21.47 and ANSI Z21.83 are gas appliance standards written by CSA.

That means if I install a panel box that is CSA listed, but not UL listed, it should be OK?

 

[Mgraw]

No. You would need to know if it is listed to US standards or Canadian standards. They may not be the same.
Here is a link to their marks.
http://www.csa-international.org/testing_certification_us/marks_for_us/Default.asp?language=English

 

[renosteinke]

The operation of the two organizations is quite different, as are their charters - but from our perspective those differences aren't all that relevant. Our question is: are we safe?

Well, "safe" is a concept that has different meanings to different folks. Without getting into meaningless "philosophy," the effect is that US rules and conventions differ somewhat from their Canadian counterparts.

Regarding panels specifically, two differences are the way clearances are measured and the separation of 'line' conductors.

The measurement difference is largely academic; 1/2" over a 36"/1 meter distance isn't enough to concern anyone but the guy doing the testing. (We measure working space from the face of the panel to 36"; they measure a meter from the actual live parts).

Canadian rules would not allow the insulation-covered bussbars that we often see crossing from the meter (sealed) section into the panel (load) section. Thus, a "CSA" panel will have a metal piece fixed over these conductors. Again, the actual difference in 'safety' is largely academic.

 

[lburrill]

Investigating UL vs. CSA, U.S.

Investigating UL vs. CSA, U.S.

I have found out that the State of Washington approves, as does OSHA, the CSA International company as an approved Nationally Recognized Testing Lab (NRTL) and that the Labor and Industries site shows a link to the standards CSA is approved to test and certify. The UL 2200 is listed on that document. In talking to State people, the requirement is for the CSA label to show a "CSA U.S." that will satisfy the need for the UL2200 standard as tested per CSA International. This has been confirmed by CSA people as well. How does one get from the "normal" CSA certificate to the "CSA U.S." and what does it cost is the question.

 

[bphgravity]

Electrical products in the US must be listed to the ANSI /UL standard that is applicable to the product. ANY of the NRTL's can test the and list the product to the applicable standard.

Example. A general purpose transformer must meet ANSI / UL standard 1561. Any of the NRTL's can test and list the transformer to that that standard, including CSA. A CSA listed transformer to any other standard would not be suitab le for use in the US without special permission.

 

[jimthesparks]

Can items listed by CSA be installed in the US even if they are not listed by UL? I don't believe that UL has exclusive rights to testing/listing, since there are other Nationally recognized testing agencies available?

Doesn't CSA have some sort of reciprocity here?

Yes they do. You need to look on the label it should say cCSAus on it. That means it meets both US and Canadian standards. A lot of manufacturers will go to CSA or UL to get things listed to save money by only getting it listed one time. Canada also excepts UL listed items as long as they meet their standards.

 

[lburrill]

Csa/us

Csa/us

I have found out that, although CSA lists UL2200 as a standard they are qualified to evaluate and list, they actually don't have the actual certifications to do it. This is according to their Toronto office. For other standards, they would have to use a "CSA/US designation as the other gentleman said. For generators, however, not going to happen.

 

[mbeatty]

UL and CSA do have a reciprocal agreement called a Memorandum of Understanding pertaining to testing of products. The agreement is dated April 21st, 2006, and is on the UL website.

As for labeling, we require UL Listing and CSA Certification of all of our general use industrial control panels. We tried to get by with just UL/CUL, but had many customers that would only accept UL & CSA. :roll: