Concession Stands

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charlie b

charlie b

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I am circuiting concession stands for a minor league baseball field. These clearly count as, ?non-dwelling unit kitchens.? Article 210.8 (2008 NEC) does not distinguish simplex from duplex receptacles, so both will require GFCI protection.

The designer of the food service layout is calling for a number of simplex receptacles, usually of the type, ?NEMA 5-15.? Each item of equipment will get its own circuit. How do I GFCI-protect one of those? GFCI circuit breaker? Other options?

Also, the owner?s design basis guidelines state that all receptacles shall be rated for a minimum of 20 amps. So I have used 20 amp breakers and #12 conductors for all these circuits. But I can?t supply a NEMA 5-15, and no other load, from a 20 amp circuit. I intend to pass on to the food service equipment designer that they have to change their schedule to call for NEMA 5-20. Is this going to cause problems? Does this mean there will be additional costs for the equipment, since the equipment vendor needs to change out their plugs?
 
I don't know if you vary from the specs, but based on the ones I've seen, I'd go with 20 amp GFCI duplex receptacles.
As you say, you can't feed a simplex 15 A recept from a 20 amp circuit.
A decent percentage of the concession equipment I have seen has 20 amp plugs so the 15A recept is of no use.
 
A 15 amp 125 volt plug fits in and is allowed to be used with 20 amp 125 volt receptacles.

I would use 20 amp simplex devices with GFCI breakers. (Be forewarned that my route is the most costly)

A 20 amp single costs more than a 20 amp duplex and a GFCI breaker is a lot more than a GFCI receptacle.

OH! I just remembered that I see a lot of food service equipment with a max OCPD rating of 15 amps, you should probably check into that before making plans.
 
A quick check on-line tells me that I can get single pole, 15 amp, GFCI breakers that fit into a "normal" single pole slot (i.e., won't take up extra room in the panel). Is that right?
 
charlie b said:
A quick check on-line tells me that I can get single pole, 15 amp, GFCI breakers that fit into a "normal" single pole slot (i.e., won't take up extra room in the panel). Is that right?
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I think it depends on the manufacturer....
 
iwire said:
........................
OH! I just remembered that I see a lot of food service equipment with a max OCPD rating of 15 amps, you should probably check into that before making plans.
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Bob, if the equipment is cord and plug would the inspector normally notice that.
As a rule, if we see a 15 or 20 amp receptacle, thats as far as we go.
We ignore factoery cord & plug equipment.
 
A 15 amp GFCI breaker will fit in the space of a normal single pole breaker. Based on what I am reading, that is the best option.
 
Charlie, GFCI SP breakers only take up one space. DP GFCI breakers take up 2 spaces.

I have never seen a GFCI that took up more than one space. BTW- if these are bolt in panels then those GFCI's are very costly.
 
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augie47 said:
I don't know if you vary from the specs, but based on the ones I've seen, I'd go with 20 amp GFCI duplex receptacles.
As you say, you can't feed a simplex 15 A recept from a 20 amp circuit.
A decent percentage of the concession equipment I have seen has 20 amp plugs so the 15A recept is of no use.
Click to expand...

I see in 210.21(B)(1) & (B)(3) that a single receptacle can't be supplied from a larger branch circuit then the recep. is rated for, but a duplex can. Why is that?:?
 
In the pizza chains I've been doing, the 120V warming cabinets come with a twist lock cord cap.

I have been setting faceless GFCI's in an adjacent single gang box (available space precludes a 2G box). They are much less expensive than breakers and were the perfect solution with my MWBC.
 
Little Bill said:
I understand that, but why can 2 or more receps be used with a higher rated bc than they are rated for?
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My guess is that there is an expectation that neither of two separate, simplex receptacles will have a load in excess of 15 amps, nor will either half of a duplex receptacle. I understand that the "guts" of a 15 amp receptacle are rated for at least 20 amps anyway.
 
charlie b said:
I am circuiting concession stands for a minor league baseball field. These clearly count as, ?non-dwelling unit kitchens.? Article 210.8 (2008 NEC) does not distinguish simplex from duplex receptacles, so both will require GFCI protection.

The designer of the food service layout is calling for a number of simplex receptacles, usually of the type, ?NEMA 5-15.? Each item of equipment will get its own circuit. How do I GFCI-protect one of those? GFCI circuit breaker? Other options?

Also, the owner?s design basis guidelines state that all receptacles shall be rated for a minimum of 20 amps. So I have used 20 amp breakers and #12 conductors for all these circuits. But I can?t supply a NEMA 5-15, and no other load, from a 20 amp circuit. I intend to pass on to the food service equipment designer that they have to change their schedule to call for NEMA 5-20. Is this going to cause problems? Does this mean there will be additional costs for the equipment, since the equipment vendor needs to change out their plugs?
Click to expand...

The least expensive route is to tell the food service equipment designer to change their simplex receptacles to duplex receptacles and the just use NEMA 5-20R, GFCI duplex receptacles. This will not reduce the functionality of the concessions stand in the least bit and the 15 amp plugs will fit into a 20 amp receptacle.
 
jrohe said:
The least expensive route is to tell the food service equipment designer to change their simplex receptacles to duplex receptacles and the just use NEMA 5-20R, GFCI duplex receptacles.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% but something to keep in mind when the 2011 NEC takes effect in your area that the GFCIs must be installed in "readily accessible locations"


Accessible, Readily (Readily Accessible). Capable of being
reached quickly for operation, renewal, or inspections
without requiring those to whom ready access is requisite
to climb over or remove obstacles or to resort to portable
ladders, and so forth.
Click to expand...

We have to be careful not locate the GFCI behind large appliances.
 
iwire said:
I agree 100% but something to keep in mind when the 2011 NEC takes effect in your area that the GFCIs must be installed in "readily accessible locations"




We have to be careful not locate the GFCI behind large appliances.
Click to expand...

I agree. The only reason I didn't mention it is because Charlie said he was under the 2008 edition.
 
So here?s a philosophical question. If you know the next Code is going to make a change, wouldn?t it be in everybody?s interest to incorporate it into current work?
 
"Everybody's interest"? Possibly not. Much depends on the relative costs and the impact the change has on safety. For example, I see no safety hazard in having a GFCI device behind a large appliance. The safety function of the device is to trip when it senses leakage current, and it can still do that job. The notion of reseting it is a matter of convenience, not safety.
 
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