Zip-ties on conduit

[S'mise]

I always see zip-ties attached to conduit to secure cords, cables and other things. I know its OK to tie a thermostat wire used for HVAC stuff it controls(outside raceway) but other than that, it's a No No.

Personally I think a few more exceptions could be added to the rule.
For example; I am hooking up a computer with a lan cable and and I cant use a ty-rap to secure it to the conduit feeding duplex outlet right next to it :rant:

What are your thoughts?

 

[Sierrasparky]

There is a code section alowing zip ties for HVAC?

 

[stevebea]

There is a code section alowing zip ties for HVAC?

I believe 300.11 would allow this.

 

[S'mise]

Yes, 300.11 (b)(2)

I guess what I'm wondering is; How many guys ignore the code and use zip-ties on conduit?

Probably should have made this a survey.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I believe 300.11 would allow this.

Thanks , I guess you learn something every day.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Yes, 300.11 (b)(2)

I guess what I'm wondering is; How many guys ignore the code and use zip-ties on conduit?

Probably should have made this a survey.

I do!
Of course there is common sense needed, I wouldn't recommend tying a bundle of 150 Cat-6 cables to some 1/2 EMT....
Just one of those silly rules...

 

[weressl]

I always see zip-ties attached to conduit to secure cords, cables and other things. I know its OK to tie a thermostat wire used for HVAC stuff it controls(outside raceway) but other than that, it's a No No.

Personally I think a few more exceptions could be added to the rule.
For example; I am hooking up a computer with a lan cable and and I cant use a ty-rap to secure it to the conduit feeding duplex outlet right next to it :rant:

What are your thoughts?

Would that produce an installation that complies with the 'neat, workman like manner'? I would suggest that you route the cable in the conduit, put a two-gang box on the end with appropriate connector plates for each service.

 

[code master]

800.133(B)

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I am hooking up a computer with a lan cable and and I cant use a ty-rap to secure it to the conduit feeding duplex outlet right next to it :rant:

You can't? I can't think of a single building I've worked in where networking cable is run where it doesn't happen SOMEWHERE in the building... heh usually in every room of the building

 

[stevebea]

I do!
Of course there is common sense needed, I wouldn't recommend tying a bundle of 150 Cat-6 cables to some 1/2 EMT....
Just one of those silly rules...

I do too. Typical scenario: A workstation with computer in a warehouse, I would tie wrap a Cat5 to the emt dropping down to the receptcale at the workstation.

 

[code master]

800.133(B)

 

[weressl]

800.133(B)

A cable with an overall jacket will satisfy the stipulation of either:

Exception No. 1: Where either (1) all of the conductors of
the electric light, power, Class 1, non?power-limited fire
alarm, and medium-power network-powered broadband
communications circuits are in a raceway or in metalsheathed,
metal-clad, nonmetallic-sheathed, Type AC, or
Type UF cables, or (2) all of the conductors of communications
circuits are encased in raceway.
Exception No. 2: Where the communications wires and
cables are permanently separated from the conductors of
electric light, power, Class 1, non?power-limited fire alarm,
and medium-power network-powered broadband communications
circuits by a continuous and firmly fixed nonconductor,
such as porcelain tubes or flexible tubing, in addition​

to the insulation on the wire.

 

[iwire]

A cable with an overall jacket will satisfy the stipulation of either:

Exception No. 1: Where either (1) all of the conductors of
the electric light, power, Class 1, non?power-limited fire
alarm, and medium-power network-powered broadband
communications circuits are in a raceway or in metalsheathed,
metal-clad, nonmetallic-sheathed, Type AC, or
Type UF cables, or (2) all of the conductors of communications
circuits are encased in raceway.
Exception No. 2: Where the communications wires and
cables are permanently separated from the conductors of
electric light, power, Class 1, non?power-limited fire alarm,
and medium-power network-powered broadband communications
circuits by a continuous and firmly fixed nonconductor,
such as porcelain tubes or flexible tubing, in addition​

to the insulation on the wire.

I am not seeing it and if I am following you I disagree.

 

[weressl]

I am not seeing it and if I am following you I disagree.

A cable jacket is not insulation but a permanent, nonconductive barrier.

 

[iwire]

A cable jacket is not insulation but a permanent, nonconductive barrier.

So are you saying I can run a low voltage cable in the same raceway as power and lighting conductors because a cable has a jacket?

 

[weressl]

So are you saying I can run a low voltage cable in the same raceway as power and lighting conductors because a cable has a jacket?

That is what the exception says.

 

[S'mise]

That is what the exception says.

I dont think so,

800.133(c) Electric Light, Power, Class 1, Non–Power-Limited
Fire Alarm, and Medium-Power Network-Powered Broadband
Communications Circuits in Raceways, Compartments,
and Boxes. Communications conductors shall not be placed in
any raceway, compartment, outlet box, junction box, or similar
fitting with conductors of electric light, power, Class 1, non–
power-limited fire alarm, or medium-power network-powered
broadband communications circuits.
Exception No. 1: Where all of the conductors of electric
light, power, Class 1, non–power-limited fire alarm, and
medium-power network-powered broadband communications
circuits are separated from all of the conductors of communications
circuits by a permanent barrier or listed divider.
Exception No. 2: Power conductors in outlet boxes, junction
boxes, or similar fittings or compartments where such conductors
are introduced solely for power supply to communications
equipment. The power circuit conductors shall be routed
within the enclosure to maintain a minimum of 6 mm (0.25 in.)
separation from the communications circuit conductors.

 

[iwire]

That is what the exception says.

I dont think so,

Neither do I.

The barrier that they are calling for is a divider in the raceway, not a cable jacket.

 

[S'mise]

Here is how I interpet it;
800.133 (A)(1) is talking about in Raceways
800.133(A)(2) is talking about "Other applications"(like a j-box) ...Need to maintain a 2" separation.

The excetpion to (A)(2) is saying you dont need to maintain the 2" separation if its in a raceway.

 

[kwired]

So are you saying I can run a low voltage cable in the same raceway as power and lighting conductors because a cable has a jacket?

I agree that you can't run a low voltage or communication cable in same raceway as power and lighting conductors. You can run them with power and lighting cables such as NM, MC, AC, SE, UF in the same chase, sleeve, or other enclosing material (which could be what we call raceways in other situations)or bored holes in framing members.