Sub panel, quick question

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

cmcgalla

Member
Location
ohio
Have been on here MANY times and always got god advice that passed inspection, now I am working on my own house, finally!

Sub panel in barn, not connect to house in any way, about 100' apart. PVC conduit from house main panel to barn sub panel, fed by 30 AMP double pole, 10-3, 2 hots, 1 neutral, ground not used.

At sub panel in barn , hots connected to lugs, neutral connected to lugs, and then a ground rod with #6 bare, not touching the sub panel box. I assume that the neutral wire and ground rod wire should not be connected in anyway in the sub panel, correct? I am under the impression that the ground rod at the sub panel is lightning protection ONLY and all faults will be cleared through the neutral back to the main panel in the house.

With that said, when I run my 20A breakers, do my neutral and ground terminate on the same bar in the sub panel?
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
The ground on the feeder needs to be connected at both panels. The neutral and ground are not bonded at the subpanel in the barn (i.e. they are to remain electrically isolated from each other).
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Also, unless your ground rod provides 25 ohms or less to ground, you will need to install a second one 6 ft or more away from the one already installed.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
How old is the installation? There was a time when you could use the neutral for grounding purposes in a separate structure.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I agree with Smart & Trevor. If this is an installation that was done prior to the 2008 code then the grounds and neutrals are bonded together, the gec must be connected to the same neutral/ground bar, and the can must be bonded to it all. Otherwise Smart is correct.
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Dennis Alwon said:
... If this is an installation that was done prior to the 2008 code then the grounds and neutrals are bonded together...
Click to expand...
Only if the EGC of the feeder is not used and isolated. To connect the feeder EGC and bond neutral and ground at subpanel would make the feeder EGC a parallel neutral current path.
 
C

cmcgalla

Member
Location
ohio
Subpanel is two years old.
To be sure: I have three wires that go from the main panel to the sub panel, hot, hot and neutral. There is no ground wire from the main panel to the sub panel, is that safe?

When I hook up my branch circuits in the sub panel should I isolate the neutrals from the grounds or do all neutrals and grounds connect? In other words my wire that goes to the ground rods never connects to any circuits, it is isolated all by itself, correct?
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
cmcgalla said:
Subpanel is two years old.
To be sure: I have three wires that go from the main panel to the sub panel, hot, hot and neutral. There is no ground wire from the main panel to the sub panel, is that safe?

When I hook up my branch circuits in the sub panel should I isolate the neutrals from the grounds or do all neutrals and grounds connect? In other words my wire that goes to the ground rods never connects to any circuits, it is isolated all by itself, correct?
Click to expand...


Under earlier code editions this was permitted with some restrictions. If you have no EGC in the raceway then the neutral must be bonded to the enclosure. Separating the neutrals and EGC's will do nothing since the enclosure is bonded. You should think of this the same way that you would think of a service.
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
cmcgalla said:
Subpanel is two years old.
To be sure: I have three wires that go from the main panel to the sub panel, hot, hot and neutral. There is no ground wire from the main panel to the sub panel, is that safe?
Click to expand...
Being safe is debatable... since no ground wire used to be permitted. For installations under 2008 and later NEC editions, no ground wire is non-compliant. An EGC is required to be run with your feeder conductors.
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
infinity said:
Under earlier code editions this was permitted with some restrictions. If you have no EGC in the raceway then the neutral must be bonded to the enclosure. Separating the neutrals and EGC's will do nothing since the enclosure is bonded. You should think of this the same way that you would think of a service.
Click to expand...
That would be a non-compliant installation.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
infinity said:
Under earlier code editions this was permitted with some restrictions. If you have no EGC in the raceway then the neutral must be bonded to the enclosure. Separating the neutrals and EGC's will do nothing since the enclosure is bonded. You should think of this the same way that you would think of a service.
Click to expand...

Smart $ said:
That would be a non-compliant installation.
Click to expand...


Actually your answer is disingenuous since not all of us know what code cycle is applicable in Ohio. My response was correct.
 
roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Smart $ said:
I understand that... but the OP'er stated the subapnel was installed two years ago and profile says location is Ohio. That puts the installation under 2008 NEC requirements.
Click to expand...

Since we now know what code cycle you are under, what does Ohio allow as far as non electrical contractors performing wiring on projects?

Roger
 
Smart $

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
roger said:
Since we now know what code cycle you are under, what does Ohio allow as far as non electrical contractors performing wiring on projects?

Roger
Click to expand...
Contractors performing electrical work must have a state electrical contractors license. However, property-owner-of-record electrical work is not contracted.
 
roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Smart $ said:
Contractors performing electrical work must have a state electrical contractors license.
Click to expand...

Then with that being the case I am closing this thread in accordance with the forum rules.

This site is designed for:

  • Contractors
  • Electricians
  • Engineers
  • Inspectors
  • Instructors
  • Other electrically related individuals
* This NEC? Forum is for those in the electrical and related industries. Questions of a "How-To" nature by persons not involved in the electrical industry will be removed without notice.

Knowledge and the practical application of the National Electrical Code is an essential part of all electrical installations. If it's important for you to understand the National Electrical Code, then look no further.
Click to expand...


Roger
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top