Detached Two Car Garage with a 200 amp Service

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LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
Detached Two Car Garage with a 200 amp Service

Yes you read that right.:lol:.

The customer is going to use it as a Glass Blowing Shop.

There will be about 24 receptacle outlets for work benches all GFCI protected because it is a garage.

also T5 HO fixtures. And two 60 Amp ovens.

And a heavy duty exhaust system..Total load is 156 AMPS

So the GC is the only one that i will work with cool dude and never rejects any of my bids.

So i give him a price and i get the green light.

So my first move is to call the POCO Babe who is a friend and ask for a meter # for a new service on this property she says sorry you have to submit a load calculation to the Engineer on line.Ok so i did just that.

24 hours later he calls and tells me i have to upgrade the service on the house..
I said SAY WHAT?
He tells me that is a fire hazard and the Electrical inspector will never allow that.:blink:

I said really he said yes it is in our rule book as well..
that is not the case at all because i read through the whole book and there is no such rule

So i call the Electrical inspector and we meet on site and he says your plan is cool so he calls the poco and gets the same stuff as me so he is going to get on their case next week.

What the poco wants increases the cost of the job by about $5200 with all the extra stock and labor ..

What do you guys think is right.?
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
infinity said:
So what exactly is the fire hazard?
Click to expand...

As far as i know there is none.

The Electrical inspector said this guy is nothing but trouble so he is trying to get hold of his supervisor.

Meanwhile the job has been at a standstill and at best i wont get word till tuesday afternoon:happysad:
 
augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
The devil may be in the details....
How is the house fed ?
Underground ? Overhead ?
If the service drop/ lateral does not got directly from POCO transformer to the house they may have some upgrading to perform.

For example, locally POCO often runs from their pole to an UG j box and feeds 2 or 3 houses from there. I increase in load as much as you have would necessitate upsizing that lateral.
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
augie47 said:
The devil may be in the details....
How is the house fed ?
Underground ? Overhead ?
If the service drop/ lateral does not got directly from POCO transformer to the house they may have some upgrading to perform.

For example, locally POCO often runs from their pole to an UG j box and feeds 2 or 3 houses from there. I increase in load as much as you have would necessitate upsizing that lateral.
Click to expand...

The house is overhead service and about 80'-100' from the pole .

The new garage is just 18' from the pole so they can just run their wire to the 2" Rigid overhead mast for the garage.

Good point they may have to do some upgrading.
 
augie47

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
With that arrangement, seems a lot unnecessary fuss. I can see submitting that load to engineering as they may need to upsize their transformer, but that's everyday stuff.
 
growler

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
LEO2854 said:
Detached Two Car Garage with a 200 amp Service

Yes you read that right.:lol:.

The customer is going to use it as a Glass Blowing Shop.
Click to expand...


The problem you would normally have on a job like this is getting the AHJ to approve a set of plans. If it's in a residential area and they plan to do any light manufacturering.

If the authorities agree to let them operate a business out of this garage there is no reason for them not to have seperate metering for power and also to take the entire structure as tax write off for operating expenses.

The idea that this could be a fire hazard should be from the plans examiner or the fire marshal. If they don't have a problem then POCO shouldn't.
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
growler said:
The problem you would normally have on a job like this is getting the AHJ to approve a set of plans. If it's in a residential area and they plan to do any light manufacturering.

If the authorities agree to let them operate a business out of this garage there is no reason for them not to have seperate metering for power and also to take the entire structure as tax write off for operating expenses.

The idea that this could be a fire hazard should be from the plans examiner or the fire marshal. If they don't have a problem then POCO shouldn't.
Click to expand...

The whole job has been approved by the town so there sould not any issue with it at all.

The only permit missing is the Electrical permit because you have to have a meter # for the permit.
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
augie47 said:
With that arrangement, seems a lot unnecessary fuss. I can see submitting that load to engineering as they may need to upsize their transformer, but that's everyday stuff.
Click to expand...

Thats what i thought but it seems the POCO engineer does not understand the scope of the job..
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
Dennis Alwon said:
Leo, did you speak directly to the engineers?
Click to expand...

Yes i did and he wants to upgrade the service on the house which makes no sense at all.

he said the fire depatment would not allow this and the Electrical inspector would not approve it either:blink:

I spoke to the Electrical inspector and he agrees with me on this job so he is trying to contact his supervisor to resolve this matter.:roll:
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
The poco's have their own rules but obviously you need a sit down again with this guy and explain that the inspector etc., are fine with it. Ask him what the problem is-- does he realize it is a detached structure? If he is a new guy he may be confusing the rules. Go over his head if you need to.
 
LEO2854

LEO2854

Esteemed Member
Location
Ma
Dennis Alwon said:
The poco's have their own rules but obviously you need a sit down again with this guy and explain that the inspector etc., are fine with it. Ask him what the problem is-- does he realize it is a detached structure? If he is a new guy he may be confusing the rules. Go over his head if you need to.
Click to expand...

This is the rule he is quoting.

302. Number of Services
Only one alternating current service will be installed to a
building, except that two services may be installed to provide
single phase and three phase service.Two or more services
may also be installed at the option of POCO to provide
suitable capacity, to supply special loads or to meet unusual
conditions. Approval by the authority having jurisdiction will also
be required
Installations for customer convenience will be installed at the
customer?s expense. In any event, prior to ordering equipment
or starting a wiring installation involving both single phase and
three phase operation, the POCO New Customer Connect
Tech Center must be contacted regarding the characteristics of
the service to be supplied.Where electricity is delivered
through more than one meter, the cost of energy delivered
through each meter will be computed separately.
Click to expand...


As you can see the rule does not apply to seperate buildings.
 
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