Conductor Bending

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augie47

augie47

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Tennessee
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State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I think we all agree the answer to the wire bending is "no problem " (consider the bending radius of a conductor in a LB).
My old eyes (and "standard practice" on hundreds of panels) lead me to think the conductors on the left were equipment grounds. As mentioned by many, since this is not a service panel, your neutrals need to be isolated.
If the other cables are AC and the feed is AC, I see no other problems.
 
G

guschash

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
I was just looking at the bends. Now that I looked at it I agree with the others, where are the egcs. Looks like a sub panel. Neutrals needs to be on the neutral bar.
 
R

RUWired

Senior Member
Location
Pa.
Whats up with the # 12 or 14 awg wire connecting the equipment ground bar to the neutral bar located at the bottom of the panel. What size feeder cable is this.

Rick
 
infinity

infinity

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Location
New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
Nice neat job. Since everything including the feeder is AC cable I don't see a problem. The only potential issue, as others have mentioned, is that the neutral bars on the left and right must be insulated from the panel enclosure.

DSCN2333.jpg
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
tonype said:
The "reds" were not used - either terminate unconnected within the panel - most appeared to be snipped and bend back up at the clamped connections into the panel
Click to expand...

"Reds" are the anti short bushings that go into the cable armor before inserting into the fitting. Snipped and bend back up at clamped location is a common practice with the aluminum bonding wire installed in contact with the armor. They do not have to have anything done with them at all, they are there just to be in contact with the cable sheath.

augie47 said:
I think we all agree the answer to the wire bending is "no problem " (consider the bending radius of a conductor in a LB).
My old eyes (and "standard practice" on hundreds of panels) lead me to think the conductors on the left were equipment grounds. As mentioned by many, since this is not a service panel, your neutrals need to be isolated.
If the other cables are AC and the feed is AC, I see no other problems.
Click to expand...

I think the conductors on the left bar are whites - there seems to be one for each cable entry. I think there is just enough shadow to make them appear different from the whites on the other bar. Look at the wire that runs from the left bar to the bottom of box and runs across and up to the right bar. It looks like the same color as other conductors terminated on the respective bar but is one unspliced conductor. Has to be shadows making it look different. Now what is the purpose of that conductor??
 
infinity

infinity

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Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Twoskinsoneman said:
For some odd reason it appears the installer colored all the reds black.........
weird.

Check the wires on the right. You can see transition from red to black.
Click to expand...

Enlarge the photo and look again. You're seeing the end of the red conductor which is attached to nothing. The reds appear to be nothing more than spares.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
There is also 12 breakers with connected circuit and 12 cables leaving the box.

same with number of branch neutral conductors plus the one running from left bar to the right bar.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Twoskinsoneman said:
Any idea why? I know there is the buss tying the two together but did the installer think all the neutral current from the right hand circuits was going to flow on that one wire to the left buss???
Click to expand...

Without the buss it would have all had to flow through that wire. How long it would last is the question.
 
D

David A Engelhart

Member
Location
Naples, Florida, USA
WOW! :jawdrop: :happysad: :?
(per 2011 NEC)
As far as the conductor bending, see 300.34.

As far as the panel's use,
  1. as it appears the neutral is attached to the enclosure, this would be a "Service Panel"; 250.24.
    1. A main OCPD is also missing; 230 parts VI(6) and VII(7).
  2. or the neutral is improperly bonded to the panel enclosure per 250.24(A)(5).
:thumbsup:
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
David A Engelhart said:
WOW! :jawdrop: :happysad: :?
(per 2011 NEC)
As far as the conductor bending, see 300.34.


As far as the panel's use,
  1. as it appears the neutral is attached to the enclosure, this would be a "Service Panel"; 250.24.
    1. A main OCPD is also missing; 230 parts VI(6) and VII(7).
  2. or the neutral is improperly bonded to the panel enclosure per 250.24(A)(5).
:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

300.34 is for over 600 volts.
 
Minuteman

Minuteman

Senior Member
Location
The Sooner Nation
Looks like I'm the only one that has a problem with the conductor bending. Those neutrals drive me crazy! If you are self employed and want to spend that much time making useless loops, go for it. But, if you worked for me and wasted that kinda time, I kick you to the curb.

Not practical, at all.
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Minuteman said:
Looks like I'm the only one that has a problem with the conductor bending. Those neutrals drive me crazy! If you are self employed and want to spend that much time making useless loops, go for it. But, if you worked for me and wasted that kinda time, I kick you to the curb.

Not practical, at all.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with taking pride in your work and doing a nice neat job. A skilled electrician can do the job in the photo almost as fast as a guy slopping it in.
 
S

squaredan

Senior Member
Location
Pennsylvania
RUWired said:
Whats up with the # 12 or 14 awg wire connecting the equipment ground bar to the neutral bar located at the bottom of the panel. What size feeder cable is this.

Rick
Click to expand...

That was one of the first things I saw, hopefully all the neutral on the right dont exceed the amp rating of that jumper...
 
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