RGS THreading

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K8MHZ said:
Usually you can swing up one leg, spin the big 90 on and then drop it back to the wall.
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I am taking about spinning the conduit in the threader.

I don't know about you but a 4' stub of 4" spinning at threading speed scares me.


And yes, we have pony threaders but then the issue can become not enough straight conduit to use it. So while I would rather bend, cut and thread many times it has to be cut, thread and bend.
 
iwire said:
I am taking about spinning the conduit in the threader.

I don't know about you but a 4' stub of 4" spinning at threading speed scares me.


And yes, we have pony threaders but then the issue can become not enough straight conduit to use it. So while I would rather bend, cut and thread many times it has to be cut, thread and bend.
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I thought you were talking about hanging the pipe on the wall. I get it now.

If you know how to cut, thread and then bend, you also know how to bend, cut and then thread but the reverse is not true.

I wouldn't even consider trying to thread a 4 inch pipe with a bend in it. I would let the guy that bent it show me how it's done. From a safe distance.

:blink:
 
K8MHZ said:
... As such, trying to get a porta pony on my site because I didn't know how to cut and thread before I made my bends wouldn't fare well with my supervisor, I will guarantee you that.

...
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As I said earlier, I'm not saying you can't cut and thread first... I was saying most electricians I've been around bend first. And the number of electricians I've been around numbers in the thousands, from all over the country, and that's working power plants, steel mills, refineries, and other such places that practically run nothing but rigid... and all of those projects had several machines and several power ponies available. And not that it matters, I too am an IBEW journeyman.
 
Smart $ said:
As I said earlier, I'm not saying you can't cut and thread first... I was saying most electricians I've been around bend first. And the number of electricians I've been around numbers in the thousands, from all over the country, and that's working power plants, steel mills, refineries, and other such places that practically run nothing but rigid... and all of those projects had several machines and several power ponies available. And not that it matters, I too am an IBEW journeyman.
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I was only half kidding about having just one machine. Google 'Zeeland Gas Turbine' and take a look at that facility. We had one 555 up on a bench and one Rigid threader when we built that place. There were days when I had to stand in line to get a piece of pipe cut and bent.

I did a school once that had the threader on the main floor and an old sidewinder up on the floor we were running pipe on. We had to cut and thread the pipe down on the concrete and then bring the pipe up to the floor we were working on and bend it.

I did do a job running rigid AL once and we had a pony there. Although that was a bit like cheating, we did all of our bends on a Chicago bender. I ended up liking that bender so much I now own two of them.
 
I will not permit more than a 90 with a kick or an offset on any single length of conduit. Even with a very skilled mechanic, it takes too long to make the multiple bends and often makes it impossible to install the conduit without the use of a union. In addition multiple bends on a single stick make it a lot harder to modify the pipe run later and it seems like most of the equipment I run conduit to gets moved or replaced with a couple of years. The other thing I do not permit is long nineties....we use short nineties unless the nipple that would be needed to finish the run would be less than 12".
Can we do it the other way...sure we can. I am a union member, of course the union would say it is better workmanship the other way as it takes more man hours the other way.
Note these comments apply to the work I do in an existing facility. With new construction you can do things somewhat differently.
 
Smart $ said:
As I said earlier, I'm not saying you can't cut and thread first... I was saying most electricians I've been around bend first. And the number of electricians I've been around numbers in the thousands, from all over the country, and that's working power plants, steel mills, refineries, and other such places that practically run nothing but rigid... and all of those projects had several machines and several power ponies available. And not that it matters, I too am an IBEW journeyman.
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I wont permit a portapony on the my jobs. It only encourages the use of multiple bends on a length of conduit and that is something I don't want to see. There are times when you have cut and thread the conduit before you bend it but those times are rare. That would only be when the section would be too short to go in the threader after we bend it.
 
K8MHZ said:
... Although that was a bit like cheating, we did all of our bends on a Chicago bender. I ended up liking that bender so much I now own two of them.
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Most of the conduit my guys install is 1" or smaller and we always use a Chicago bender for that. It is quicker and more accurate than a 555...especially when the switch sticks.
We have a Chicago bender on the end of a large gang box with a 1215 threader on top so we can move the bending and threading equipment to various parts of the plant.
 
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K8MHZ said:
I was only half kidding about having just one machine. Google 'Zeeland Gas Turbine' and take a look at that facility. We had one 555 up on a bench and one Rigid threader when we built that place. There were days when I had to stand in line to get a piece of pipe cut and bent.

I did a school once that had the threader on the main floor and an old sidewinder up on the floor we were running pipe on. We had to cut and thread the pipe down on the concrete and then bring the pipe up to the floor we were working on and bend it.

I did do a job running rigid AL once and we had a pony there. Although that was a bit like cheating, we did all of our bends on a Chicago bender. I ended up liking that bender so much I now own two of them.
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K8MHZ said:
That is cool, but us poor 275 hands won't see one unless we tramp on over to your local!

:p
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Proper and enough tooling available on site to do the job efficiently is the responsibility of the contractor, not the local. I've had to wait to use tooling myself... but that has mostly happened on job sites with several hundred to a thousand electricians working on top of each other, with just as many personnel per other crafts. I attribute that as not a matter of tooling being available, but rather having the space to utilize it.
 
Smart $ said:
Proper and enough tooling available on site to do the job efficiently is the responsibility of the contractor, not the local. I've had to wait to use tooling myself... but that has mostly happened on job sites with several hundred to a thousand electricians working on top of each other, with just as many personnel per other crafts. I attribute that as not a matter of tooling being available, but rather having the space to utilize it.
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That could have been the deal at Zeeland. We only had one con box to work out of and there were about 150 electricians on the site.
 
Ok , really sorry guys. This is my lack of field experience. So what would you do. I'd you had the following scenarios.

1. (3) sets of 3 " RGS from one switchboard feeding another switchboard 250' away with each run having a bend at each switchboard and (3 ) along the run.

2. (10) sets of 4" RGS from one swbd to another 400' with a bend at each board and (5) in the middle.


Thanks
 
horsegoer said:
Ok , really sorry guys. This is my lack of field experience. So what would you do. I'd you had the following scenarios.

1. (3) sets of 3 " RGS from one switchboard feeding another switchboard 250' away with each run having a bend at each switchboard and (3 ) along the run.

2. (10) sets of 4" RGS from one swbd to another 400' with a bend at each board and (5) in the middle.


Thanks
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Hmmm.... I know there's a more specific question in there somewhere.

Are you asking if we would use factory 90's or bend the 90's? I have no preference.

You did not say whether the bends in the run are 90's or not. If you have to make an offset in the runs, what are you going to do?
 
Smart $ said:
Hmmm.... I know there's a more specific question in there somewhere.

Are you asking if we would use factory 90's or bend the 90's? I have no preference.

You did not say whether the bends in the run are 90's or not. If you have to make an offset in the runs, what are you going to do?
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Your right, my fault. Would you use factory 90's or bend . I heard field bend is better way to go.

You would have 90's out of the boards and a 45's during the run. Thanks
 
If the job is of any size, we will set up the bender and field bend all of the bends. If it is just a small job that only requires a few 90s and no other bends we will use factory 90s.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
If the job is of any size, we will set up the bender and field bend all of the bends. If it is just a small job that only requires a few 90s and no other bends we will use factory 90s.
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Si if there are many many 45's and 90's for 2" and above field bend works out to be cheaper due to labor/material? How and why as opposed to factory 90's . I
 
horsegoer said:
Si if there are many many 45's and 90's for 2" and above field bend works out to be cheaper due to labor/material? How and why as opposed to factory 90's . I
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You're the estimater - take a lool at the numbers, and the costs of labor per unit. Pre-bent stuff from the wholesaler is expensive, and, it takes extra cutting and threading, to match up to whatever it is they sold you. Straight pipe is cheap pipe, but the world isn't built that way, you have to play with what is given. Ditch might not be straight, grades change, etc.

With a bender, and skilled craftsmen in the field, it will be a lot cheaper overall to set the men up with the equipment and bill appropriately. I can see 700 to 850 hours worth of pipework, before you figure out if it has to concrete encased, or if it has to be RGS (whatever the specs say). If you use alternative methods, do you have to cage the the road crossings? Hour adjustments for alternatives. Who trenches, backfills? Do you backfill to the top of the first lift? Scare tape? Me thinks you'll be busy with this animal for a bit. not to mention a shovel full of money.
 
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