faceless GFCI as dissonnect.

Status
Not open for further replies.
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
This faceless GFCI is listed as both a GFCI (KCXS) and as a "Motor Controllers, mechanically operated and solid state" (NMFT). The question is if this device can be used as a code required motor disconnect? I don't think so as you don't have physical control of the power contacts in the device. I see it as being the same as trying to use a control circuit as the lock-out....something that is not permitted. Looking for other comments.
 
I don't see how it can be used as the motor disconnect since it is not marked on and off. We use them often for hydromassage tubs as a safety switch for the homeowners but the motor has a cord and plug connection. They give us the require GFCI protection that is accessible without using a gfci breaker.
 
I agree with your concerns but it seems to fit the requirements of 430.109 and it's not much different from a snap switch.
 
I guess one could argue 430.104. If the light is on it if off . Do you think this art. means it must be labeled On and OFF . It does not appear to.
 
If the faceless gfci complied with 430.109 (A) (6) I would say yes but otherwise I would say no. I will have to look at one to see it is marked suitable as a motor disconnect.
 
Here is what p&S says about their faceless gfci

Rated as a 1-1/2 HP motor control switch. SafeLock? Protection: if critical components are damaged and ground fault protection is lost, power to the load is disconnected.
Click to expand...
 
augie47 said:
I agree with your concerns but it seems to fit the requirements of 430.109 and it's not much different from a snap switch.
Click to expand...
With a snap switch you are physically moving the contacts in the switch when you switch it. With this device you are operating a relay that opens the power circuit. I don't see it as being close to being the same.
Also, as far as I know, it is listed as a manual motor controller, but not additionally marked "suitable as motor disconnect" as required by 430.109(A)(6).
 
Its listed as a motor controller, not as a disconnect. I wouldn't allow it and would not want to be working on a motor downstream with it as a disconnect.
 
I was in error. I noted that a "motor controller" was an acceptable disconnect, but overlooked the requirement to be marked "suitable as motor disconnect". Without that marking, I agree, not acceptable as a disconnect.
 
I would have to say no also as it's not a mechanical means of disconnect. You can have a bad GFI that pops the button, but still let's current through.
 
Twoskinsoneman said:
Not arguing... I don't have an opinion either way but why do you believe they are unsafe? Evidence?
Click to expand...

I should quantify my statement in regards to snap switches and such used for disconnects, and not as controllers.

I think a means of disconnect should be always be lockable, snap switches and such cannot.

I speak only from my limited experience and a few close calls.

My stories are long/boresome and only relevant in that they relate to my personal safety, so I shall not tell them other to say that a local lockable disconnect would have resulted in few less painful days for me.

Do I feel so strongly that I would make it a proposal: No.

Do I have an opinion (validated or not) : Yes.

Do I feel others should accept my view: Probably not. Although it would be nice if they did.:)
 
jumper said:
I should quantify my statement in regards to snap switches and such used for disconnects, and not as controllers.

I think a means of disconnect should be always be lockable, snap switches and such cannot.

I speak only from my limited experience and a few close calls.

My stories are long/boresome and only relevant in that they relate to my personal safety, so I shall not tell them other to say that a local lockable disconnect would have resulted in few less painful days for me.

Do I feel so strongly that I would make it a proposal: No.

Do I have an opinion (validated or not) : Yes.

Do I feel others should accept my view: Probably not. Although it would be nice if they did.:)
Click to expand...

maybe you could carry one of these around with you :)
just peace of mind.

40962-key-lock.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top