Unusual Wiring Request

[Little Bill]

I was at the Dentist office yesterday and gave my Dentist one of my business cards. He said funny that you let me know you are an electrician because I've been meaning to call one. I thought, good timing, until I heard his request. Well it's not that bad, just different. He is building a tree house and wants it wired. He said it will be well built, enclosed good. He just wants maybe a receptacle and light. I haven't looked at it yet, but I was wondering if any of you have done anything like that. Would you be allowed to attach conduit to a tree?

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I was at the Dentist office yesterday and gave my Dentist one of my business cards. He said funny that you let me know you are an electrician because I've been meaning to call one. I thought, good timing, until I heard his request. Well it's not that bad, just different. He is building a tree house and wants it wired. He said it will be well built, enclosed good. He just wants maybe a receptacle and light. I haven't looked at it yet, but I was wondering if any of you have done anything like that. Would you be allowed to attach conduit to a tree?

Certainly can use the tree for the light and conduit for the light IMHO.
410.36(G)

If you also have a receptacle or two beside the light I don't see a violation.
I don't care how well built I would still treat it as outdoors and GFCI it.

 

[Little Bill]

Certainly can use the tree for the light and conduit for the light IMHO.
410.36(G)

If you also have a receptacle or two beside the light I don't see a violation.
I don't care how well built I would still treat it as outdoors and GFCI it.

Yeah, I had planned on treating everything as an outdoor installation. I just didn't know about conduit on the tree. I haven't looked up anything yet. Just thought I would see if anyone else here has done anything similar to this.

 

[kwired]

A search of 2008 NEC on CD ROM for the word "vegetation" comes up with 6 hits in three articles and one hit in the index.

The articles are 225.26, 230.10, and 590.4(J)

All three articles are prohibiting use of vegetation such as trees to be used to support overhead conductors.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Ok but this has nothing to do at all with the tree supporting conduit.
IMO this specifically allows it.

410.36(G) Trees. Outdoor luminaires and associated equipment
shall be permitted to be supported by trees.

 

[kwired]

Ok but this has nothing to do at all with the tree supporting conduit.
IMO this specifically allows it.

410.36(G) Trees. Outdoor luminaires and associated equipment
shall be permitted to be supported by trees.

410 is for luminaires. But how do you get branch circuit conductors to the luminaire unless you can also support them from the tree, besides placing some support there that is independent from the tree?

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

410 is for luminaires. But how do you get branch circuit conductors to the luminaire unless you can also support them from the tree, besides placing some support there that is independent from the tree?

The conduit for the BC is IMHO associated equipment of the luminaire.
I know you can debate that but from what I understand it is highly agreed with. In fact the first time I ever learned of it was MH Understanding the NEC dvds.

Edit to make my self clear. I am talking about a conduit (like RMC) coming out of the ground, and supported by clamps on the tree up to the light.
In no way was I ever referring to overhead cable.

 

[stew]

This is an interesting post.for me. Wiring a tree house is how I began my electrical career at age about 12 or 13. we put a plug on the end of some romex(didnt even know what romex was at the time) an drilled a hole in the siding of my friends dads garage where we emerged up high and strung it using the 2 trees that were between the garage and our tree house tree.punched another hole in the side of the treehouse and nailed a box inside with an outlet in it.Used the outlet for our little heater and a lamp for lites. When I attended my friends funeral back in about 91 or 92 guess what? tree house was still there but the wire was tight as a banjo string. His momm never really knew what the wire was for and I demoed the whole circuit out for her. lasted for 30 years and was still hot when I cut it out. wonder how many code sections we violated!!! lol

 

[iwire]

410 is for luminaires. But how do you get branch circuit conductors to the luminaire unless you can also support them from the tree, besides placing some support there that is independent from the tree?

You can support conduits and conductors from trees, you just cannot support overhead spans between trees. You have to come up the tree from below.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

You can support conduits and conductors from trees, you just cannot support overhead spans between trees. You have to come up the tree from below.

Just curious, would you consider it a violation to have a box and receptacle in-line with the conduit going up to the luminaire?

 

[iwire]

Just curious, would you consider it a violation to have a box and receptacle in-line with the conduit going up to the luminaire?

I don't think there are any prohibitions at all in wiring a tree beyond the overhead conductor part.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I don't think there are any prohibitions at all in wiring a tree beyond the overhead conductor part.

This is the problem with permissive rules like 410.36(G). Why have it if there is no prohibition against anywhere?

 

[iwire]

This is the problem with permissive rules like 410.36(G). Why have it if there is no prohibition against anywhere?

They should probably change 410.36 altogether to a list of things that cannot support fixtures.

 

[kwired]

I don't think there are any prohibitions at all in wiring a tree beyond the overhead conductor part.

That was my opinion from the start, maybe it did not come across that way.

I do think it is a good design practice to use a method that will allow for tree to grow and move in windy conditions.

 

[wirenut3]

Why not do it in pvc pipe and use some expansion couplings to account for some of the growth? Maybe have a loose coil of UF wire under the ground below as well. It is a strange job, but you can probably design it to work safely. The feed would also have to be on a GFCI as well. Call your town inspector first- see what he thinks. Worst case scenario you mount a GFCI protected receptacle on a 4x4 at the base of the tree and let them run a cord to the tree house.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I've wired a treehouse for a friend complete with lights , porch light, cable Tv and internet.....
What are kids supposed to do these days without that!

 

[kwired]

Why not do it in pvc pipe and use some expansion couplings to account for some of the growth? Maybe have a loose coil of UF wire under the ground below as well. It is a strange job, but you can probably design it to work safely. The feed would also have to be on a GFCI as well. Call your town inspector first- see what he thinks. Worst case scenario you mount a GFCI protected receptacle on a 4x4 at the base of the tree and let them run a cord to the tree house.

Loose coil is not so loose when compacted in dirt.

Better idea would be a junction box near base of tree and a length of flex (not stretched tight) to allow for movement and growth.

 

[wirenut3]

Loose coil is not so loose when compacted in dirt.

Better idea would be a junction box near base of tree and a length of flex (not stretched tight) to allow for movement and growth.

That should work, do the whole upper run in pvc flex- run it up zig-zag until you get to the tree house.

 

[zbang]

Better idea would be a junction box near base of tree and a length of flex (not stretched tight) to allow for movement and growth.

AFAIK, once sprouted, tree branches never get farther from the ground, so the only thing you have to account for is tree girth and movement.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

AFAIK, once sprouted, tree branches never get farther from the ground, so the only thing you have to account for is tree girth and movement.

From what I have researched this is true. You don't need expansion couplings, if you worry about anything it is the tree growing outward over the pipe. I installed 3 500 watt halogens at the top of a tree about 6 years ago on my property. This is a very tall tree that moves quite a bit. I used RMC underground and transferred to EMT to go up the tree. I decided to pull a wire EGC in case movement loosened any EMT couplings but I check often and they never have shown any signs of loosening. The bark has begun to encroach the two hole straps I used slightly. But it doesn't worry me a bit. :happyno: